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I switched to off-grid solar last year, and one thing that became instantly clear is that I'll never have enough panels for an electric car, crikey, even runnin

I switched to off-grid solar last year, and one thing that became instantly clear is that I'll never have enough panels for an electric car, crikey, even running the oven can be a challenge. I really wonder how Europe is gonna manage the extra grid demand given decades of under investment in energy production. More cables to countries still investing in nuclear?

nonethewiser 4y ago
Buying more fossil fuels
wilgertvelinga 4y ago
It has all been calculated: https://www.helsinkitimes.fi/themes/themes/science-and-technology/22012-researchers-agree-the-world-can-reach-a-100-renewable-energy-system-by-or-before-2050.html https://www.helsinkitimes.fi/themes/themes/science-and-techn...
- whitehexagon 4y ago
  I dont read news sites (apart from HN of course), but from the link title I get the gist. Sure it's possible to build massive renewable systems across Europe, but these large projects require governmental commitments that exceed elected time frames. For example one of the first things we need if we are to phase out CO2 driving is a decent inter-European rail system. Even going capital to capital can be hard. And since we are running full speed into AI unemployment, let's make that rail system for free, and save some universal benefit payments. I think the free train trials in various countries this year already proved very popular.
  - ZeroGravitas 4y ago
    The EU is in the process of expanding the cross country links via rail. Historically they've been country-centric networks. See https://www.independent.co.uk/travel/europe/europe-trains-eu-rail-projects-sleeper-b2276469.html https://www.independent.co.uk/travel/europe/europe-trains-eu... "10 new rail projects that could revolutionise travelling across Europe by train"
mmaurizi 4y ago
I would think an electric car would pair really well with off-grid solar - you can charge the car with excess energy during the day, and pull from the cars battery for power at night. Sure it's a big power draw, but you can significantly downsize your battery system, which is presumably also a big power draw. Or do you not have a big battery system now, and only run the high energy appliances like the oven during the day when you have lots of power?
- whitehexagon 4y ago
  >Or do you not have a big battery system now, and only run the high energy appliances like the oven during the day when you have lots of power? Yeah it is a small system so far, so I even serialize some of my usage, but I dont see the point scaling it up too much, since the cloudy day generation is so poor. So rather than EV I probably go with an eBike.
Lutger 4y ago
Do you mean running the oven at night on your own solar panels without a battery? Because at full production, you would need just 4 panels to run a decent domestic oven. A promising solution is vehicle-to-grid, using the battery in your car to store and draw solar energy from. It all depends on where you are located and what your energy demands are though. I can provide all of my yearly energy needs with about 14 panels, which includes heating, but not a car (I don't use one), but I'm not off grid.
- whitehexagon 4y ago
  oven is 2.6kW, hob is 6kW (induction), my panels are 455W each. I am in the process of switching battery tech to li-ion, but they dont like the high resistive loads. I havent researched EV too much, but I cant imagine trying to charge 40kWh? I was tempted to stay grid-connected, but the max energy I can sell back, is limited to what grid energy I use. i.e. they still get all their extra fees.
marcyb5st 4y ago
I am not sure where you live, but in the northern of Italy it's really possible. I have installed a 12kW system in 2018 with 20kWh of storage. I also have heat-pumps for sanitary hot water with a 100L tank and AC in summer + an EV. I admit that in winter or particularly cloudy weeks I still need to get some energy from the grid, but 1) that's likely because the house I am in was built in the 80s and the thermal insulations is terrible compared to modern materials [1] and 2) if I were to put something like dual photovoltaic-thermal hybrid panels [2] likely that wouldn't be an issue anyway. [1] https://www.thermablok.co.uk/#:~:text=Classed%20as%20a%20Super%20Insulation,refurbishments%20and%20energy%20efficiency%20retrofits https://www.thermablok.co.uk/#:~:text=Classed%20as%20a%20Sup.... [2] https://dualsun.com/en/products/dualsun-spring/ https://dualsun.com/en/products/dualsun-spring/
- whitehexagon 4y ago
  Sure, I get good energy production most days, but those cloudy days feel like 50x less? I added battery capacity for a day or two of cloudy weather, but I think the only way to add an EV would be to use the grid as the battery system, similar to what you do. For hot water I use a solar heated system, which removed a chunk of resistive load from the PV system.
prottog 4y ago
It's not just energy production. The generated energy has to be transported places. This whole thread is littered with the idea that you can just add charging ports to light poles, parking lots, etc., all backed by the idea that electricity comes from the socket in the wall.
- whitehexagon 4y ago
  Indeed. I noticed that difference traveling from the UK to FI especially. The small place there had a 3 phase supply, with multiple resistive load heaters, and a split inverter which was okay down to about -15C, and then you just had to burn electrons. I cant imagine many European countries having the grid infrastructure for something like that in every home, plus an EV in the driveway. I guess that's why much of Europe is still burning natural gas.

nonethewiser 4y ago

Buying more fossil fuels

wilgertvelinga 4y ago

It has all been calculated: https://www.helsinkitimes.fi/themes/themes/science-and-technology/22012-researchers-agree-the-world-can-reach-a-100-renewable-energy-system-by-or-before-2050.html https://www.helsinkitimes.fi/themes/themes/science-and-techn...

whitehexagon 4y ago
I dont read news sites (apart from HN of course), but from the link title I get the gist. Sure it's possible to build massive renewable systems across Europe, but these large projects require governmental commitments that exceed elected time frames. For example one of the first things we need if we are to phase out CO2 driving is a decent inter-European rail system. Even going capital to capital can be hard. And since we are running full speed into AI unemployment, let's make that rail system for free, and save some universal benefit payments. I think the free train trials in various countries this year already proved very popular.
- ZeroGravitas 4y ago
  The EU is in the process of expanding the cross country links via rail. Historically they've been country-centric networks. See https://www.independent.co.uk/travel/europe/europe-trains-eu-rail-projects-sleeper-b2276469.html https://www.independent.co.uk/travel/europe/europe-trains-eu... "10 new rail projects that could revolutionise travelling across Europe by train"

mmaurizi 4y ago

I would think an electric car would pair really well with off-grid solar - you can charge the car with excess energy during the day, and pull from the cars battery for power at night. Sure it's a big power draw, but you can significantly downsize your battery system, which is presumably also a big power draw. Or do you not have a big battery system now, and only run the high energy appliances like the oven during the day when you have lots of power?

whitehexagon 4y ago
>Or do you not have a big battery system now, and only run the high energy appliances like the oven during the day when you have lots of power? Yeah it is a small system so far, so I even serialize some of my usage, but I dont see the point scaling it up too much, since the cloudy day generation is so poor. So rather than EV I probably go with an eBike.

Lutger 4y ago

Do you mean running the oven at night on your own solar panels without a battery? Because at full production, you would need just 4 panels to run a decent domestic oven. A promising solution is vehicle-to-grid, using the battery in your car to store and draw solar energy from. It all depends on where you are located and what your energy demands are though. I can provide all of my yearly energy needs with about 14 panels, which includes heating, but not a car (I don't use one), but I'm not off grid.

whitehexagon 4y ago
oven is 2.6kW, hob is 6kW (induction), my panels are 455W each. I am in the process of switching battery tech to li-ion, but they dont like the high resistive loads. I havent researched EV too much, but I cant imagine trying to charge 40kWh? I was tempted to stay grid-connected, but the max energy I can sell back, is limited to what grid energy I use. i.e. they still get all their extra fees.

marcyb5st 4y ago

I am not sure where you live, but in the northern of Italy it's really possible. I have installed a 12kW system in 2018 with 20kWh of storage. I also have heat-pumps for sanitary hot water with a 100L tank and AC in summer + an EV. I admit that in winter or particularly cloudy weeks I still need to get some energy from the grid, but 1) that's likely because the house I am in was built in the 80s and the thermal insulations is terrible compared to modern materials [1] and 2) if I were to put something like dual photovoltaic-thermal hybrid panels [2] likely that wouldn't be an issue anyway. [1] https://www.thermablok.co.uk/#:~:text=Classed%20as%20a%20Super%20Insulation,refurbishments%20and%20energy%20efficiency%20retrofits https://www.thermablok.co.uk/#:~:text=Classed%20as%20a%20Sup.... [2] https://dualsun.com/en/products/dualsun-spring/ https://dualsun.com/en/products/dualsun-spring/

whitehexagon 4y ago
Sure, I get good energy production most days, but those cloudy days feel like 50x less? I added battery capacity for a day or two of cloudy weather, but I think the only way to add an EV would be to use the grid as the battery system, similar to what you do. For hot water I use a solar heated system, which removed a chunk of resistive load from the PV system.

prottog 4y ago

It's not just energy production. The generated energy has to be transported places. This whole thread is littered with the idea that you can just add charging ports to light poles, parking lots, etc., all backed by the idea that electricity comes from the socket in the wall.

whitehexagon 4y ago
Indeed. I noticed that difference traveling from the UK to FI especially. The small place there had a 3 phase supply, with multiple resistive load heaters, and a split inverter which was okay down to about -15C, and then you just had to burn electrons. I cant imagine many European countries having the grid infrastructure for something like that in every home, plus an EV in the driveway. I guess that's why much of Europe is still burning natural gas.