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I have the opposite take... there's a program I use (and ties me to Windows) called WikidPad[1], it's a personal Wiki, written in Python. The win32 version work

I have the opposite take... there's a program I use (and ties me to Windows) called WikidPad[1], it's a personal Wiki, written in Python. The win32 version works great, and because it's compiled (back in 2018), the binary should do so forever. The Linux distribution is source based, and broke when WxWidgets changed the name/nature of some key parameters to its calls. I'm a Pascal programmer, not a Python programmer... but I'm hoping that I can leverage CoPilot to help me navigate the nitty gritty boilerplate that would otherwise take days to sort through, and get to the heart of the refactoring/patching necessary to get WikidPad up to date and fix the breakage. I see GPT4 and kin as tools to allow more freedom of action, and less worry about the stuff I always hated anyway, the minutiae of coding. -- >years of domain knowledge Usually the term "domain knowledge" applies to real world non-programming knowledge such as chemistry, manufacturing, etc. This is the first time I've seen it applied to programming. Programming is just a means to an end. I've never considered programming to be an industry. We produce a product with zero marginal cost. I suspect you are in the same emotional place that accountants were, the first time they saw spreadsheets in use. It must have seemed like the end of the world to them, but it wasn't. >all these students going into CS are in for a rude awakening As long as they know that computers are a tool, not the end result, they'll be fine [1] https://wikidpad.sourceforge.net/ https://wikidpad.sourceforge.net/

creshal 4y ago
> his is the first time I've seen it applied to programming. Programming is just a means to an end. I've never considered programming to be an industry. C++ versus Pascal mindset. :) > This is the first time I've seen it applied to programming. Programming is just a means to an end. I've never considered programming to be an industry. Yes and no. It did not replace the good accountants who actually orchestrated the whole department, but it got rid of a lot of the low-level grunt work. AI-supported coding autopilots seem to go in the same direction: The junior devs whose whole job it is to translate architectural and design specifications into excessively verbose boilerplate code will struggle to survive, but the software architects above them will find a new means through which to express the analytical thinking, process planning and understanding of complex dependencies that they're paid for.
- soco 4y ago
  I wonder how can the future architect get there, if going through the junior stages is suddenly not an option anymore. Because those all-understanding software architects don't just pop into existence.
  - creshal 4y ago
    Maybe we'll finally invest into a real education and training pipeline, instead of making people figure out everything on the job, like other professions.
    - clbrmbr 4y ago
      Hard to figure out how to innovate on education (slow to change institutions) in the face of such rapid change. I actually feel my university education prepared me well for what’s going on. I studied a mix of theoretical comp science, physics, philosophy, and mathematics (esp calculus and number theory). Very little of what I learned is obsoleted, and especially probability theory and NLP are turning out to be very valuable to know when working with even CoPilot. But man, I feel bad for those studying “programming” as a trade rather than computer science as a scientific / engineering discipline.
      - cudgy 4y ago
        Your background has no domain knowledge though. It is structured and foundational stem skills (except philosophy) which the ai’s can more easily handle. Domain knowledge about specific industries and what is required by the software seems the more valuable skillset going forward. How does physics and computer science help with that? Communication skills and ability to learn new, more unstructured domains is likely to be more critical like those learned by strong liberal arts disciplines, for example.
  - mikewarot 4y ago
    There are new accountants being minted all the time, spreadsheets didn't stop that. Artists didn't stop because the camera made it possible to do what otherwise took hours with a canvas and oils. The nature of programming may change, but it's still about using computers to solve problems. --- Putting on the old guy hat --- You kids didn't learn programming from magazine articles typing in your favorite little game into a computer that went away when you powered it off. You didn't have to toggle in a boot loader before you could use the computer. You didn't dream of one day having a modem and being able to call BBSs, then dream of your own phone line that you didn't have to share. Yet, ya'll turned out ok, despite all those changes. It'll be ok, kid... it'll be OK. Computer programs will always be complex beasties with bugs hiding in the corners. There will always be a class of people willing to find those bugs and make things easier to use. You are that type of person, right? Good!

creshal 4y ago

> his is the first time I've seen it applied to programming. Programming is just a means to an end. I've never considered programming to be an industry. C++ versus Pascal mindset. :) > This is the first time I've seen it applied to programming. Programming is just a means to an end. I've never considered programming to be an industry. Yes and no. It did not replace the good accountants who actually orchestrated the whole department, but it got rid of a lot of the low-level grunt work. AI-supported coding autopilots seem to go in the same direction: The junior devs whose whole job it is to translate architectural and design specifications into excessively verbose boilerplate code will struggle to survive, but the software architects above them will find a new means through which to express the analytical thinking, process planning and understanding of complex dependencies that they're paid for.

soco 4y ago
I wonder how can the future architect get there, if going through the junior stages is suddenly not an option anymore. Because those all-understanding software architects don't just pop into existence.
- creshal 4y ago
  Maybe we'll finally invest into a real education and training pipeline, instead of making people figure out everything on the job, like other professions.
  - clbrmbr 4y ago
    Hard to figure out how to innovate on education (slow to change institutions) in the face of such rapid change. I actually feel my university education prepared me well for what’s going on. I studied a mix of theoretical comp science, physics, philosophy, and mathematics (esp calculus and number theory). Very little of what I learned is obsoleted, and especially probability theory and NLP are turning out to be very valuable to know when working with even CoPilot. But man, I feel bad for those studying “programming” as a trade rather than computer science as a scientific / engineering discipline.
    - cudgy 4y ago
      Your background has no domain knowledge though. It is structured and foundational stem skills (except philosophy) which the ai’s can more easily handle. Domain knowledge about specific industries and what is required by the software seems the more valuable skillset going forward. How does physics and computer science help with that? Communication skills and ability to learn new, more unstructured domains is likely to be more critical like those learned by strong liberal arts disciplines, for example.
- mikewarot 4y ago
  There are new accountants being minted all the time, spreadsheets didn't stop that. Artists didn't stop because the camera made it possible to do what otherwise took hours with a canvas and oils. The nature of programming may change, but it's still about using computers to solve problems. --- Putting on the old guy hat --- You kids didn't learn programming from magazine articles typing in your favorite little game into a computer that went away when you powered it off. You didn't have to toggle in a boot loader before you could use the computer. You didn't dream of one day having a modem and being able to call BBSs, then dream of your own phone line that you didn't have to share. Yet, ya'll turned out ok, despite all those changes. It'll be ok, kid... it'll be OK. Computer programs will always be complex beasties with bugs hiding in the corners. There will always be a class of people willing to find those bugs and make things easier to use. You are that type of person, right? Good!