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The irony with all of this is that if you live in a country allied with the US, you are safer on Tiktok than any US-bases social media platform. If you live in

by max51 4y ago

The irony with all of this is that if you live in a country allied with the US, you are safer on Tiktok than any US-bases social media platform. If you live in a western country, the US has way more power to fuck over your life than China does. It only takes one email from a three letter agency and your life is completely ruined. China on the other hand has no power over you if you are a westerner without family living in china. The only power china has is in Asia, you can be as rude as you want toward them if you don't have close family living there. They know better than to start fire bombing Europe or the US over whatever you have in you chat history. Using social engineering to fuck with your life is also much harder and more expensive when their hardcore supporters don't even speak the same language you do and they don't have support from the authorities to force you to do anything. They can't threaten to arrest you the same way an agent working for the US could. The US on the other hand will get to you regardless of where you are in the world. They will go as far as killing state leaders and journalists overseas. Even as a US citizen living in the US, they literally passed laws under Obama that allows the US government to drone strike US citizens for national security reasons without a trial.

rudyfink 4y ago
And, if you do not, the opposite?
colinsane 4y ago
> Even as a US citizen, they literally passed laws under Obama that allows the US government to drone strike US citizen for national security reasons without a trial. are you referring to [Anwar al-Awlaki](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anwar_al-Awlaki https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anwar_al-Awlaki)? i was under the impression there just wasn’t a ruling on it. which, pretty shitty to let the right to due process degrade de-facto, but not quite the same as “literally passing laws” that make it unambiguously legal.
- nonethewiser 4y ago
  Well it makes it worse. The constitution is very clear about affording citizens due process. Obama setting the precedent of drone striking the US citizen without consequences is what muddies the waters.
nonethewiser 4y ago
> Even as a US citizen living in the US, they literally passed laws under Obama that allows the US government to drone strike US citizen for national security reasons without a trial. I honestly have no idea how Obama's reputation survived this. Taking executive action that completely undermines an individual's constitutional rights is monstrous. It's really sad that it was a total non-issue. Also, what law you are referring to? I believe at the time there was no legal precedent whatsoever. I'm not sure of anything that passed afterwards either.
- rjzzleep 4y ago
  I'm more confused at how Biden became president after that, and how most of the cabinet from the Obama era is now Bidens cabinet. At least in all the warmongering positions. He was after all the instrument of the Iraq war before Bush. At this point I have to wonder if Biden has Obama's warmonger cabinet, or if Obama was actually trying to do the things he promised and couldn't because Biden placed all those warmongers there(I'm talking about, Nuland, Blinken, Sullivan, Kirby, Austin etc. leaving one person specifically out in fear of the HN crowd).
  - pas 4y ago
    We live in a war-happy world. Russia steamrolling into Georgia. China aiming Taiwan. I'm from a post-Soviet country, that might explain why I have this less than pacifist view.
  - slowmovintarget 4y ago
    It shouldn't be all that confusing. Biden was elected because the only actual alternative was worse.
  - areyousure 4y ago
    > most of the cabinet from the Obama era is now Bidens cabinet In case anyone is curious, there is exactly one person in Biden's cabinet (16 people total) that previously served in Obama's cabinet: the Secretary of Agriculture. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_Vilsack https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_Vilsack If you further consider "cabinet-level" positions (25 people total), two more people are included: the current Secretary of Veterans Affairs was previously the White House chief of staff and the current White House chief of staff was previously the acting director of the Office of Management and Budget. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denis_McDonough https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denis_McDonough https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeff_Zients https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeff_Zients Of the 5 people mentioned by name in the parent comment, 3 have never been in the Cabinet and none were in both Obama's and Biden's Cabinets. My best guess for the unnamed person is the current director of the Central Intelligence Agency (previously a cabinet-level position!) and who was Acting Secretary of State under Obama? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_J._Burns_(diplomat) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_J._Burns_(diplomat)
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
sschueller 4y ago
What I find extremely odd is how the US is pushing for the ICC to arrest Putin. [1] Aren't they opening pandoras box here as they are also not a signatory of the ICC and have quite a few very similar skeletons in the closet? I know there is the "Invade the Haag" Act[2] but Lavrov also just said they would drop a bomb on the Haag if Putin gets arrested. [1] https://www.reuters.com/world/us-top-diplomat-blinken-urges-all-icc-members-comply-with-putin-arrest-warrant-2023-03-22/ https://www.reuters.com/world/us-top-diplomat-blinken-urges-... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Service-Members%27_Protection_Act https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Service-Members%27_Pr...
- cudgy 4y ago
  How exactly does the ICC enforce these decrees? Fly into Moscow and snatch Putin from his office? Fly into Texas and snatch George Bush from his art studio?
  - sschueller 4y ago
    They would be arrested upon setting foot in a country that is part of the ICC. Similar to how interpol issues arrest warrants. However, since these are high ranking officials that will just not travel to these destinations it's a pointless exercise. It does however hinder these people from going on speaking tour after they have left office which many do. How exactly this would play out if a country tries to arrest a head of state which travels with security is unclear. I highly doubt any leader or nation would attempt to travel to a country where there is that risk of such a confrontation.
EVa5I7bHFq9mnYK 4y ago
Who knows, Xi's or Putin's son might be ruling America in a few decades' time, better be careful what you say on whatever platform.
411111111111111 4y ago
> If you live in a western country, the US has way more power to fuck over your life than China does. I got news for you, they're able to get to you too. Likely with less preparation then the USA would need if you're only living in a US aligned country. https://www.cnn.com/2022/12/04/world/china-overseas-police-stations-intl-cmd/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2022/12/04/world/china-overseas-police-s...
- max51 4y ago
  The difference is that unlike an FBI agent, you can just tell them to fuck off if you are not a chinese citizen. They only have power over chinese people because of their families back in China and their chinese citizenship that they may not want to lose.
  - 411111111111111 4y ago
    They don't have legal power. The reports mentioned that multiple people vanished after getting dragged into their offices, even with video evidence. That makes your point kinda moot in my opinion.
  - arthur2e5 4y ago
    Telling them to fuck off did not work with Gui Minhai, who was a Swedish citizen at the time. If you're in some way Chinese they can just do the dragging first and make you say the "I wanted to come home" line later.

by max51 4y ago

rudyfink 4y ago

And, if you do not, the opposite?

colinsane 4y ago

> Even as a US citizen, they literally passed laws under Obama that allows the US government to drone strike US citizen for national security reasons without a trial. are you referring to [Anwar al-Awlaki](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anwar_al-Awlaki https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anwar_al-Awlaki)? i was under the impression there just wasn’t a ruling on it. which, pretty shitty to let the right to due process degrade de-facto, but not quite the same as “literally passing laws” that make it unambiguously legal.

nonethewiser 4y ago
Well it makes it worse. The constitution is very clear about affording citizens due process. Obama setting the precedent of drone striking the US citizen without consequences is what muddies the waters.

nonethewiser 4y ago

> Even as a US citizen living in the US, they literally passed laws under Obama that allows the US government to drone strike US citizen for national security reasons without a trial. I honestly have no idea how Obama's reputation survived this. Taking executive action that completely undermines an individual's constitutional rights is monstrous. It's really sad that it was a total non-issue. Also, what law you are referring to? I believe at the time there was no legal precedent whatsoever. I'm not sure of anything that passed afterwards either.

rjzzleep 4y ago
I'm more confused at how Biden became president after that, and how most of the cabinet from the Obama era is now Bidens cabinet. At least in all the warmongering positions. He was after all the instrument of the Iraq war before Bush. At this point I have to wonder if Biden has Obama's warmonger cabinet, or if Obama was actually trying to do the things he promised and couldn't because Biden placed all those warmongers there(I'm talking about, Nuland, Blinken, Sullivan, Kirby, Austin etc. leaving one person specifically out in fear of the HN crowd).
- pas 4y ago
  We live in a war-happy world. Russia steamrolling into Georgia. China aiming Taiwan. I'm from a post-Soviet country, that might explain why I have this less than pacifist view.
- slowmovintarget 4y ago
  It shouldn't be all that confusing. Biden was elected because the only actual alternative was worse.
- areyousure 4y ago
  > most of the cabinet from the Obama era is now Bidens cabinet In case anyone is curious, there is exactly one person in Biden's cabinet (16 people total) that previously served in Obama's cabinet: the Secretary of Agriculture. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_Vilsack https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_Vilsack If you further consider "cabinet-level" positions (25 people total), two more people are included: the current Secretary of Veterans Affairs was previously the White House chief of staff and the current White House chief of staff was previously the acting director of the Office of Management and Budget. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denis_McDonough https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denis_McDonough https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeff_Zients https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeff_Zients Of the 5 people mentioned by name in the parent comment, 3 have never been in the Cabinet and none were in both Obama's and Biden's Cabinets. My best guess for the unnamed person is the current director of the Central Intelligence Agency (previously a cabinet-level position!) and who was Acting Secretary of State under Obama? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_J._Burns_(diplomat) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_J._Burns_(diplomat)

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

sschueller 4y ago

What I find extremely odd is how the US is pushing for the ICC to arrest Putin. [1] Aren't they opening pandoras box here as they are also not a signatory of the ICC and have quite a few very similar skeletons in the closet? I know there is the "Invade the Haag" Act[2] but Lavrov also just said they would drop a bomb on the Haag if Putin gets arrested. [1] https://www.reuters.com/world/us-top-diplomat-blinken-urges-all-icc-members-comply-with-putin-arrest-warrant-2023-03-22/ https://www.reuters.com/world/us-top-diplomat-blinken-urges-... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Service-Members%27_Protection_Act https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Service-Members%27_Pr...

cudgy 4y ago
How exactly does the ICC enforce these decrees? Fly into Moscow and snatch Putin from his office? Fly into Texas and snatch George Bush from his art studio?
- sschueller 4y ago
  They would be arrested upon setting foot in a country that is part of the ICC. Similar to how interpol issues arrest warrants. However, since these are high ranking officials that will just not travel to these destinations it's a pointless exercise. It does however hinder these people from going on speaking tour after they have left office which many do. How exactly this would play out if a country tries to arrest a head of state which travels with security is unclear. I highly doubt any leader or nation would attempt to travel to a country where there is that risk of such a confrontation.

EVa5I7bHFq9mnYK 4y ago

Who knows, Xi's or Putin's son might be ruling America in a few decades' time, better be careful what you say on whatever platform.

411111111111111 4y ago

> If you live in a western country, the US has way more power to fuck over your life than China does. I got news for you, they're able to get to you too. Likely with less preparation then the USA would need if you're only living in a US aligned country. https://www.cnn.com/2022/12/04/world/china-overseas-police-stations-intl-cmd/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2022/12/04/world/china-overseas-police-s...

max51 4y ago
The difference is that unlike an FBI agent, you can just tell them to fuck off if you are not a chinese citizen. They only have power over chinese people because of their families back in China and their chinese citizenship that they may not want to lose.
- 411111111111111 4y ago
  They don't have legal power. The reports mentioned that multiple people vanished after getting dragged into their offices, even with video evidence. That makes your point kinda moot in my opinion.
- arthur2e5 4y ago
  Telling them to fuck off did not work with Gui Minhai, who was a Swedish citizen at the time. If you're in some way Chinese they can just do the dragging first and make you say the "I wanted to come home" line later.