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A lot of people can’t afford a new vehicle at current prices and many can’t afford used vehicles either. I suspect there will be a price collapse in the next ye

A lot of people can’t afford a new vehicle at current prices and many can’t afford used vehicles either. I suspect there will be a price collapse in the next year or two. Part of the problem, in America at least, is what a minimally viable car is these days. You can’t really find compact cars. I believe there is still the Mistubishi Mirage and the Nissan Versa, but most cars are at least 30 grand new.

ars 4y ago
> A lot of people can’t afford a new vehicle at current prices and many can’t afford used vehicles either. If it lasts much longer it's going to be like Orange Juice. People will simply grow up without a car, and that will be their normal. The reduction in car demand will be permanent (demand destruction). (Orange Juice used to be a basic part of breakfast and was normally always stocked in a typical fridge. High prices made that stop, and now an entire generation views orange juice as a treat rather than a staple.)
- citrin_ru 4y ago
  I’ve grown up without car and spend most of my adulthood without a car (on and off) but still ready to pay significant (but not unlimited) price for freedom of movement a car gives - with car I can go anytime and almost anywhere (within a distance limited by time and roads of course). Most people don’t value this but I do and don’t think I’m unique here.
  - foxyv 4y ago
    I felt the same way when I was growing up. Having a car changed everything. I really wish that I could have had that freedom without having to chain myself to an expensive and dangerous hunk of metal. Public transit, bikable, and walkable neighborhoods would save us so much time and stress and free those that cannot drive themselves.
- pengaru 4y ago
  > People will simply grow up without a car, and that will be their normal If my last in-office experience ~5 years ago is any indication, that's already pretty common. A good portion of the younger employees had never owned a car, some didn't even have a drivers license. This was in The Mission district of SF.
  - entropicgravity 4y ago
    The cell phone killed the need for young people to have a car. All you really need is a way to know where all your friends are going tonight (or right now). Used to be you needed a car for that but now a cell phone will do it and it's a lot cheaper than a car.
  - bradknowles 4y ago
    My car died just before the pandemic hit, and I never got a chance to replace it. My wife and I have just shared her car since then, and neither of us get out and drive that often. Now, with forced RTO, it looks like I may be forced to buy a car in order to do the commute. That's like a $25-50k hit in one fell swoop. I can't really look for an alternative job in town, because all the other employers are likely to expect me to also commute. I could look for a different remote-only job, but there aren't that many around for DevOps Engineer types. If I was a Software Development Engineer, that would be much easier. I'm not sure what I'm going to do. I'm not sure what I can feasibly do. I think I may just be screwed.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - poulsbohemian 4y ago
    I am seeing this even in my small rural community. Growing dependence on our bus service, bikes, and walking for demographics that can't really afford a car.
  - tshaddox 4y ago
    One of the very few places in the U.S. that even kinda pretends to be livable without a car. And even SF is pretty limiting without a car.
- TylerE 4y ago
  It shouldn’t be a staple. It’s basically soda in terms of sugar content.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - ZeroGravitas 4y ago
    Yes, an inadvertently great analogy. Stopping doing something stupid that was bad for us (progress!) reframed as a sign of poverty and societal collapse from "the good old days".
- swagasaurus-rex 4y ago
  It can be cost effective to Uber/Lyft if you only take a few trips a week. Compared to car insurance which can be $100-$200/mo, gas, maintenance, car tabs/registration fee (almost $300/year where I live). This doesn’t even consider the cost of the car itself which can be the equivalent of thousands of Uber/Lyft rides.
  - midasuni 4y ago
    > Compared to car insurance which can be $100-$200/mo How does that work? In the U.K. my insurance is $200 a year! Is that a normal price or something extreme
    - michael1999 4y ago
      That is a normal price. - A car crash in the US can generate million dollar hospital bills. Personal liability cover of $2million is standard. - American regulators require air bags to detonate quicker which might 10x collision repair costs. - Americans are rich, and drive very expensive cars. - Americans drive many more miles, which increases risk. - US driving tests have significantly lower standards than the UK.
    - jmalicki 4y ago
      It's actually quite low, I've only seen that low for liability-only coverage. My bet is that it's due to insane medical expenses and death liability, which can easily have claims into the hundreds of thousands and millions (if your coverage even goes that high)
    - 1123581321 4y ago
      Mean individual auto insurance cost in the UK is around £500. You're getting a deal. Americans still pay more, though. If I had to guess why, it would be that Americans drive more miles, and it's easier and cheaper to drive while inexperienced in the US.
    - MandieD 4y ago
      Since most Americans take loans to buy cars, they have to carry full (or low deductible) collision (your fault) and comprehensive (theft, vandalism, weather, etc) insurance, not just liability. Also, insurance against damage by uninsured motorists is crucial, and can be a large part of the bill.
Faaak 4y ago
Yeah, that's a shame. It's really strange to me when I compare a car from 30 years ago to a car produced now. Why would I need 1600kg to transport 2 70kg persons ? Makes sense somewhat (I want comfort features like airbags, aircon, power steering, etc..). Still, I'd love to see more "low tech" cars produced. There was the Renault Twiggy (which I own and love), and now there is the Citroen AMI but sadly the twizy was one seat behind the other (though it could go up to 80km/h (100km/hour when you reflash the firmware)), and the Ami has two seats side by side but is limited to 45km/hour.

ars 4y ago

> A lot of people can’t afford a new vehicle at current prices and many can’t afford used vehicles either. If it lasts much longer it's going to be like Orange Juice. People will simply grow up without a car, and that will be their normal. The reduction in car demand will be permanent (demand destruction). (Orange Juice used to be a basic part of breakfast and was normally always stocked in a typical fridge. High prices made that stop, and now an entire generation views orange juice as a treat rather than a staple.)

citrin_ru 4y ago
I’ve grown up without car and spend most of my adulthood without a car (on and off) but still ready to pay significant (but not unlimited) price for freedom of movement a car gives - with car I can go anytime and almost anywhere (within a distance limited by time and roads of course). Most people don’t value this but I do and don’t think I’m unique here.
- foxyv 4y ago
  I felt the same way when I was growing up. Having a car changed everything. I really wish that I could have had that freedom without having to chain myself to an expensive and dangerous hunk of metal. Public transit, bikable, and walkable neighborhoods would save us so much time and stress and free those that cannot drive themselves.
pengaru 4y ago
> People will simply grow up without a car, and that will be their normal If my last in-office experience ~5 years ago is any indication, that's already pretty common. A good portion of the younger employees had never owned a car, some didn't even have a drivers license. This was in The Mission district of SF.
- entropicgravity 4y ago
  The cell phone killed the need for young people to have a car. All you really need is a way to know where all your friends are going tonight (or right now). Used to be you needed a car for that but now a cell phone will do it and it's a lot cheaper than a car.
- bradknowles 4y ago
  My car died just before the pandemic hit, and I never got a chance to replace it. My wife and I have just shared her car since then, and neither of us get out and drive that often. Now, with forced RTO, it looks like I may be forced to buy a car in order to do the commute. That's like a $25-50k hit in one fell swoop. I can't really look for an alternative job in town, because all the other employers are likely to expect me to also commute. I could look for a different remote-only job, but there aren't that many around for DevOps Engineer types. If I was a Software Development Engineer, that would be much easier. I'm not sure what I'm going to do. I'm not sure what I can feasibly do. I think I may just be screwed.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- poulsbohemian 4y ago
  I am seeing this even in my small rural community. Growing dependence on our bus service, bikes, and walking for demographics that can't really afford a car.
- tshaddox 4y ago
  One of the very few places in the U.S. that even kinda pretends to be livable without a car. And even SF is pretty limiting without a car.
TylerE 4y ago
It shouldn’t be a staple. It’s basically soda in terms of sugar content.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- ZeroGravitas 4y ago
  Yes, an inadvertently great analogy. Stopping doing something stupid that was bad for us (progress!) reframed as a sign of poverty and societal collapse from "the good old days".
swagasaurus-rex 4y ago
It can be cost effective to Uber/Lyft if you only take a few trips a week. Compared to car insurance which can be $100-$200/mo, gas, maintenance, car tabs/registration fee (almost $300/year where I live). This doesn’t even consider the cost of the car itself which can be the equivalent of thousands of Uber/Lyft rides.
- midasuni 4y ago
  > Compared to car insurance which can be $100-$200/mo How does that work? In the U.K. my insurance is $200 a year! Is that a normal price or something extreme
  - michael1999 4y ago
    That is a normal price. - A car crash in the US can generate million dollar hospital bills. Personal liability cover of $2million is standard. - American regulators require air bags to detonate quicker which might 10x collision repair costs. - Americans are rich, and drive very expensive cars. - Americans drive many more miles, which increases risk. - US driving tests have significantly lower standards than the UK.
  - jmalicki 4y ago
    It's actually quite low, I've only seen that low for liability-only coverage. My bet is that it's due to insane medical expenses and death liability, which can easily have claims into the hundreds of thousands and millions (if your coverage even goes that high)
  - 1123581321 4y ago
    Mean individual auto insurance cost in the UK is around £500. You're getting a deal. Americans still pay more, though. If I had to guess why, it would be that Americans drive more miles, and it's easier and cheaper to drive while inexperienced in the US.
  - MandieD 4y ago
    Since most Americans take loans to buy cars, they have to carry full (or low deductible) collision (your fault) and comprehensive (theft, vandalism, weather, etc) insurance, not just liability. Also, insurance against damage by uninsured motorists is crucial, and can be a large part of the bill.

Faaak 4y ago

Yeah, that's a shame. It's really strange to me when I compare a car from 30 years ago to a car produced now. Why would I need 1600kg to transport 2 70kg persons ? Makes sense somewhat (I want comfort features like airbags, aircon, power steering, etc..). Still, I'd love to see more "low tech" cars produced. There was the Renault Twiggy (which I own and love), and now there is the Citroen AMI but sadly the twizy was one seat behind the other (though it could go up to 80km/h (100km/hour when you reflash the firmware)), and the Ami has two seats side by side but is limited to 45km/hour.