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This ex-Amish TikToker is incredible: https://www.tiktok.com/@yodertoter40?_t=8abRVLmk1ra&_r=1 https://www.tiktok.com/@yodertoter40?_t=8abRVLmk1ra&_r=1 Some of

This ex-Amish TikToker is incredible: https://www.tiktok.com/@yodertoter40?_t=8abRVLmk1ra&_r=1 https://www.tiktok.com/@yodertoter40?_t=8abRVLmk1ra&_r=1 Some of his content is benign, but he also discusses the epidemic of child abuse (including sexual), rampant sexism, and the general cruelty of Amish culture. They have been regularly desecrating his father's grave, who committed suicide due to Amish abuse.

monero-xmr 4y ago
[flagged]
- pjc50 4y ago
  https://gomag.com/article/leaked-emails-from-the-group-that-pushes-anti-trans-laws-across-the-country/ https://gomag.com/article/leaked-emails-from-the-group-that-... The debate is being deliberately poisoned by promoting a few detransitioners to use against people who are actually happy having transitioned.
- watwut 4y ago
  There is large and vocal conservative community trying to create hysteria over trans people and their transition.
  - dinkly 4y ago
    [flagged]
    - watwut 4y ago
      Frankly, this is a lie. The only ones going for kids were anti trans activists - because attacking trans kids is easier. This has nothing to do what trans activists done or not done. This was about conservatives needing an ennemy and feeling disgust over trans people existing.
      - dinkly 4y ago
        It is not a lie. It is an observation of the specific topics being criticized by conservatives, and also by radical feminists.
- froh 4y ago
  this is a counterfactual misrepresentation of gender dysphoria and the medical community recommendation for it's treatment in adolescents beyond tanner stage 2. the misrepresentation is part of Mr. Trump's talking point to "eradicate transgenderism" and it's dividing families from gender dysphoric family members and driving individuals into suicide. stop spreading it. https://www.wpath.org/soc8 https://www.wpath.org/soc8
- dang 4y ago
  Please don't take HN threads on generic flamewar tangents, and especially not sensational ideological generic flamewar tangents. It's not what this site is for, and destroys what it is for. https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&sort=byDate&type=comment&query=generic%20ideolog%20by:dang https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&sor... https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
- asherah 4y ago
  transition is something for which you are presented the full pros and cons, and given the freedom to choose whether or not you want the effects of it; being born into an amish family is something you have no freedom to choose, and given the things the comment you're replying to is describing as occurring, i think it makes perfect sense to say that the latter is more ethically questionable
  - dinkly 4y ago
    [flagged]
    - froh 4y ago
      this is false. https://www.wpath.org/soc8 https://www.wpath.org/soc8
      - dinkly 4y ago
        Sadly, this is not false. Here's a paper on "gender-affirming" mastectomies from researchers in the US. The cohort studied includes girls as young as 12 years old at the time of surgery: https://journals.lww.com/annalsplasticsurgery/Abstract/2022/05004/Gender_Affirming_Mastectomy_Trends_and_Surgical.4.aspx https://journals.lww.com/annalsplasticsurgery/Abstract/2022/... Also here's a piece from Reuters about rates of "gender-affirming treatment" in children, taken from health insurance data - the section for "top surgery" includes girls as young as 13: https://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/usa-transyouth-data/ https://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/usa-tran...
        froh 4y ago
        outliers. that's not the recommended treatment. hormone blockers are. the right wing debate is however to criminalize the recommended treatment.
        dinkly 4y ago
        Now that I have provided evidence, do you concede that you were incorrect, and that it is a true statement of fact that girls as young as 12 years old are having their breasts sliced off because they say they want to be boys?
- balthigor 4y ago
  No there is not. This is drivel. Laughable nonsense. You're worked up about the current manufactured bogeyman of the present. This too shall pass.
  - monero-xmr 4y ago
    [flagged]
    - PaulDavisThe1st 4y ago
      Please define what you mean by "large" in this context.
      - monero-xmr 4y ago
        Tens of thousands of people organizing to discuss the life-destroying issue seems pretty large. Considering ranitidine (Zantac) was recalled for a small potential of causing cancer, it's odd that such documented negative experiences has not resulted in a banning of procedures (at least for children) until far more research is conducted. But hey, that's what happens when politics overtakes science.
    - Timon3 4y ago
      Such stories exist for literally all medical interventions. Do you know how many elderly people deeply regret elective surgeries like hip or knee replacements? How many have tragic stories and want to make sure others don't fall into the same trap? The major difference between these cases is that the regret rate for transitioning is way, way lower than almost all other medical interventions. This is because we have a long process before anything permanent is done. If you wish to pay so much attention to de-transitioners, will you also look at the data and pay attention to the many, many more people who regret other medical interventions? Should we ban knee and hip replacements?
      - badpun 4y ago
        For reference, can you give rough percentages of regret after a sex change vs an average medical intervention?
- pharmakom 4y ago
  > with educated elites Which educated elites? Was there a survey? Did you talk to some? What did they say when pushed on this? I am concerned that you have formed a view of a fictional person that is an amalgam of newspaper headlines and think pieces that were designed for clicks.
- panick21_ 4y ago
  > traditional Catholics Yeah the people who help enable the largest child abuse ring in history are not 'fine' people. They literally support an organization that IS PROVEN to SYSTEMATICALLY protect sexual predictors and have done so for 100s of years.
  - bacchusracine 4y ago
    >Yeah the people who help enable the largest child abuse ring in history are not 'fine' people. You're right. It's horrible what public school teachers are allowed to get away with...wait, that's not who you were talking about? Better check your numbers again.
    - watwut 4y ago
      Unlike catholic churches, school system had mandatory reporting of sexual abuse for years. And if a teacher was accused of sexual abuse, it was not an actual norm to move him to another position with access to children.
      - bacchusracine 4y ago
        >if a teacher was accused of sexual abuse, it was not an actual norm to move him to another position with access to children. You don't say... https://www.desertsun.com/story/news/crime_courts/2017/03/22/keith-bryan-desert-sands/99012698/ https://www.desertsun.com/story/news/crime_courts/2017/03/22... https://www.sfreporter.com/news/coverstories/2018/01/03/passing-the-trash/ https://www.sfreporter.com/news/coverstories/2018/01/03/pass... https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1986-10-19-me-6252-story.html https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1986-10-19-me-6252-s... See there's a certain group that just loves to harp on about the catholics (and yes they certainly should be ashamed and given every legal penalty for what they did) but want to give other groups a pass. They like to pretend that this sort of coverup isn't a systematic issue whenever you get a large group. And they like to ignore all the cases where female teachers have "relationships" with their students.... https://www.foxnews.com/us/florida-teacher-accused-sexual-relationship-student-received-multiple-warnings-before https://www.foxnews.com/us/florida-teacher-accused-sexual-re... https://nypost.com/2023/03/25/nyc-teacher-accused-of-sex-with-mentally-ill-student/ https://nypost.com/2023/03/25/nyc-teacher-accused-of-sex-wit... https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10984483/Female-teacher-46-sexual-relationship-male-student-sent-pictures-breasts.html https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10984483/Female-tea... Shall I go on? There are easily hundreds of unique cases that I could link. Somehow though I suspect that you will fall into the usual pattern of dismising these all as being from "bad" sources or say that it's just not the same...somehow.
- Quarrelsome 4y ago
  > There is a large and vocal community of “detransitioners” The "large" part is arguably the attention given to them by conservative news organisations who are dying to put them on air, as their existence justifies their existing views without every having to pay attention to the numbers.
  - somedude895 4y ago
    > The "large" part is arguably the attention given to them by conservative news organisations who are dying to put them on air Probably just as much as the unjustifiably large attention given to trans topics by leftist news.
    - Quarrelsome 4y ago
      sure, the subject does get a disproportionate amount of coverage (you could argue it is the zeitgeist of the times though). But my point is that you can't battle that by taking an even smaller minority from the already small minority and try to use that to invalidate the claims of the small (greater relative to the smaller of small) minority. This is a tactic that has long been used in media to justify discrimination going back decades so why are we still falling for it?
nonethewiser 4y ago
> They have been regularly desecrating his father's grave, who committed suicide due to Amish abuse. What do you mean by "they?" Amish people in general? Or some specific people or group (that you have not identified)? Consider how you'd feel about saying "they" to refer to some individual transgression by other groups.
softsound 4y ago
I think any extremist and isolating culture will bring with it extremist behavior and thinking. People want to believe they have the right answer. Often this leads them to becoming very self-righteous and prideful and also very shame focused. I don't think this is something one would just limit to just this culture or belief system. And as that guy states, that is this just his own personal experience. I too dealt with someone ruining my father's funeral and would probably their grave if he had one and let me tell you, they weren't amish but they were self righteous and crazy. That said, I think the Amish can have quality work, are useful in preserving history but I personally would not want that life. I remember reading Running Out of Time as a child and always somehow associated it with life like the Amish. I know things are different of course but that's what I think of first. A bad association.

monero-xmr 4y ago

[flagged]

pjc50 4y ago
https://gomag.com/article/leaked-emails-from-the-group-that-pushes-anti-trans-laws-across-the-country/ https://gomag.com/article/leaked-emails-from-the-group-that-... The debate is being deliberately poisoned by promoting a few detransitioners to use against people who are actually happy having transitioned.
watwut 4y ago
There is large and vocal conservative community trying to create hysteria over trans people and their transition.
- dinkly 4y ago
  [flagged]
  - watwut 4y ago
    Frankly, this is a lie. The only ones going for kids were anti trans activists - because attacking trans kids is easier. This has nothing to do what trans activists done or not done. This was about conservatives needing an ennemy and feeling disgust over trans people existing.
    - dinkly 4y ago
      It is not a lie. It is an observation of the specific topics being criticized by conservatives, and also by radical feminists.
froh 4y ago
this is a counterfactual misrepresentation of gender dysphoria and the medical community recommendation for it's treatment in adolescents beyond tanner stage 2. the misrepresentation is part of Mr. Trump's talking point to "eradicate transgenderism" and it's dividing families from gender dysphoric family members and driving individuals into suicide. stop spreading it. https://www.wpath.org/soc8 https://www.wpath.org/soc8
dang 4y ago
Please don't take HN threads on generic flamewar tangents, and especially not sensational ideological generic flamewar tangents. It's not what this site is for, and destroys what it is for. https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&sort=byDate&type=comment&query=generic%20ideolog%20by:dang https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&sor... https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
asherah 4y ago
transition is something for which you are presented the full pros and cons, and given the freedom to choose whether or not you want the effects of it; being born into an amish family is something you have no freedom to choose, and given the things the comment you're replying to is describing as occurring, i think it makes perfect sense to say that the latter is more ethically questionable
- dinkly 4y ago
  [flagged]
  - froh 4y ago
    this is false. https://www.wpath.org/soc8 https://www.wpath.org/soc8
    - dinkly 4y ago
      Sadly, this is not false. Here's a paper on "gender-affirming" mastectomies from researchers in the US. The cohort studied includes girls as young as 12 years old at the time of surgery: https://journals.lww.com/annalsplasticsurgery/Abstract/2022/05004/Gender_Affirming_Mastectomy_Trends_and_Surgical.4.aspx https://journals.lww.com/annalsplasticsurgery/Abstract/2022/... Also here's a piece from Reuters about rates of "gender-affirming treatment" in children, taken from health insurance data - the section for "top surgery" includes girls as young as 13: https://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/usa-transyouth-data/ https://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/usa-tran...
      - froh 4y ago
        outliers. that's not the recommended treatment. hormone blockers are. the right wing debate is however to criminalize the recommended treatment.
        dinkly 4y ago
        Now that I have provided evidence, do you concede that you were incorrect, and that it is a true statement of fact that girls as young as 12 years old are having their breasts sliced off because they say they want to be boys?
balthigor 4y ago
No there is not. This is drivel. Laughable nonsense. You're worked up about the current manufactured bogeyman of the present. This too shall pass.
- monero-xmr 4y ago
  [flagged]
  - PaulDavisThe1st 4y ago
    Please define what you mean by "large" in this context.
    - monero-xmr 4y ago
      Tens of thousands of people organizing to discuss the life-destroying issue seems pretty large. Considering ranitidine (Zantac) was recalled for a small potential of causing cancer, it's odd that such documented negative experiences has not resulted in a banning of procedures (at least for children) until far more research is conducted. But hey, that's what happens when politics overtakes science.
  - Timon3 4y ago
    Such stories exist for literally all medical interventions. Do you know how many elderly people deeply regret elective surgeries like hip or knee replacements? How many have tragic stories and want to make sure others don't fall into the same trap? The major difference between these cases is that the regret rate for transitioning is way, way lower than almost all other medical interventions. This is because we have a long process before anything permanent is done. If you wish to pay so much attention to de-transitioners, will you also look at the data and pay attention to the many, many more people who regret other medical interventions? Should we ban knee and hip replacements?
    - badpun 4y ago
      For reference, can you give rough percentages of regret after a sex change vs an average medical intervention?
pharmakom 4y ago
> with educated elites Which educated elites? Was there a survey? Did you talk to some? What did they say when pushed on this? I am concerned that you have formed a view of a fictional person that is an amalgam of newspaper headlines and think pieces that were designed for clicks.
panick21_ 4y ago
> traditional Catholics Yeah the people who help enable the largest child abuse ring in history are not 'fine' people. They literally support an organization that IS PROVEN to SYSTEMATICALLY protect sexual predictors and have done so for 100s of years.
- bacchusracine 4y ago
  >Yeah the people who help enable the largest child abuse ring in history are not 'fine' people. You're right. It's horrible what public school teachers are allowed to get away with...wait, that's not who you were talking about? Better check your numbers again.
  - watwut 4y ago
    Unlike catholic churches, school system had mandatory reporting of sexual abuse for years. And if a teacher was accused of sexual abuse, it was not an actual norm to move him to another position with access to children.
    - bacchusracine 4y ago
      >if a teacher was accused of sexual abuse, it was not an actual norm to move him to another position with access to children. You don't say... https://www.desertsun.com/story/news/crime_courts/2017/03/22/keith-bryan-desert-sands/99012698/ https://www.desertsun.com/story/news/crime_courts/2017/03/22... https://www.sfreporter.com/news/coverstories/2018/01/03/passing-the-trash/ https://www.sfreporter.com/news/coverstories/2018/01/03/pass... https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1986-10-19-me-6252-story.html https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1986-10-19-me-6252-s... See there's a certain group that just loves to harp on about the catholics (and yes they certainly should be ashamed and given every legal penalty for what they did) but want to give other groups a pass. They like to pretend that this sort of coverup isn't a systematic issue whenever you get a large group. And they like to ignore all the cases where female teachers have "relationships" with their students.... https://www.foxnews.com/us/florida-teacher-accused-sexual-relationship-student-received-multiple-warnings-before https://www.foxnews.com/us/florida-teacher-accused-sexual-re... https://nypost.com/2023/03/25/nyc-teacher-accused-of-sex-with-mentally-ill-student/ https://nypost.com/2023/03/25/nyc-teacher-accused-of-sex-wit... https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10984483/Female-teacher-46-sexual-relationship-male-student-sent-pictures-breasts.html https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10984483/Female-tea... Shall I go on? There are easily hundreds of unique cases that I could link. Somehow though I suspect that you will fall into the usual pattern of dismising these all as being from "bad" sources or say that it's just not the same...somehow.
Quarrelsome 4y ago
> There is a large and vocal community of “detransitioners” The "large" part is arguably the attention given to them by conservative news organisations who are dying to put them on air, as their existence justifies their existing views without every having to pay attention to the numbers.
- somedude895 4y ago
  > The "large" part is arguably the attention given to them by conservative news organisations who are dying to put them on air Probably just as much as the unjustifiably large attention given to trans topics by leftist news.
  - Quarrelsome 4y ago
    sure, the subject does get a disproportionate amount of coverage (you could argue it is the zeitgeist of the times though). But my point is that you can't battle that by taking an even smaller minority from the already small minority and try to use that to invalidate the claims of the small (greater relative to the smaller of small) minority. This is a tactic that has long been used in media to justify discrimination going back decades so why are we still falling for it?

nonethewiser 4y ago

> They have been regularly desecrating his father's grave, who committed suicide due to Amish abuse. What do you mean by "they?" Amish people in general? Or some specific people or group (that you have not identified)? Consider how you'd feel about saying "they" to refer to some individual transgression by other groups.

softsound 4y ago

I think any extremist and isolating culture will bring with it extremist behavior and thinking. People want to believe they have the right answer. Often this leads them to becoming very self-righteous and prideful and also very shame focused. I don't think this is something one would just limit to just this culture or belief system. And as that guy states, that is this just his own personal experience. I too dealt with someone ruining my father's funeral and would probably their grave if he had one and let me tell you, they weren't amish but they were self righteous and crazy. That said, I think the Amish can have quality work, are useful in preserving history but I personally would not want that life. I remember reading Running Out of Time as a child and always somehow associated it with life like the Amish. I know things are different of course but that's what I think of first. A bad association.