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>>Apple's operating system creates this file in apparently all directories to store meta information about its contents. In fact, it contains the names of all f

>>Apple's operating system creates this file in apparently all directories to store meta information about its contents. In fact, it contains the names of all files (and also directories) in that folder. Anyone have an idea why modern versions of MacOS still uses a .DS_Store file? The OS could just as easily read and display the contents of a directory. And deleting a .DS_Store file doesn't seem to have any noticeable negative affect.

GeekyBear 4y ago
>Anyone have an idea why modern versions of MacOS still uses a .DS_Store file? For the exact same reason Windows has a Desktop.ini file? They store per directory settings for the Mac Finder and Windows Explorer.
alin23 4y ago
The file is used for storing layouts (show as icons/list/grid etc.) and various settings (sorting, grouping etc.). Storing a local file inside the directory allows for moving that directory around while also keeping those settings. The file is invisible for users of Finder so it is still the best solution for this task. I have a .DS_Store line in a global .gitignore and don't notice it much but when I'm annoyed by DS_Store files in a specific directory, I usually bulk delete them using `fd`: fd -u --type file --fixed-strings .DS_Store $HOME/Projects/some-file-server-project -x echo rm {}
- gcr 4y ago
  i'm surprised that Apple doesn't do directory-level metadata directly in the filesystem itself, e.g. with xattrs on the directory inode.
  - Tagbert 4y ago
    It does store that metadata in the directing in Mac OS native file systems. The DS files are only for non-Mac file systems like FAT32.
    - Tagbert 4y ago
      “Directory” not “Directing”
    - sthrs 4y ago
      This is not true. My APFS volumes are absolutely littered with .DS_Stores. They're generated every time you open a directory in the Finder.
Lt_Riza_Hawkeye 4y ago
I believe if you've dragged some files around in that folder, it stores where those were. Or if you've set the folder to sort by name or date modified, etc.
- russellbeattie 4y ago
  I've noticed that the .DS_Store file doesn't appear in a directory until I've clicked the triangle in a list view to see the contents of a subfolder. Then it creates one, I assume, to keep track of which subfolders are open.
  - dreamcompiler 4y ago
    Correct. If you create a new directory in the Terminal and populate it, it won't have a .DS_Store file. The Finder creates .DS_Store when you view the directory in the Finder.
- MBCook 4y ago
  Right. I would assume custom icons and labels (do those still e its?). Basically it seems to be the replacement for the old resource fork data on non-Apple file systems.
  - kitsunesoba 4y ago
    I think you're right that .DS_Store handles labels, but custom icons are done with a second invisible file in the folder titled "Icon?" which apparently stores the icon data in its resource fork.
  - JonathonW 4y ago
    Labels and custom icons on files are stored in extended attributes (implemented as named forks on HFS+; not sure about APFS but the OS presents them all as xattrs regardless of FS) on the files themselves in APFS and HFS+. Custom icons for folders are stored in a special "Icon?" hidden file, but not actually in the file's normal data-- they're in an extended attribute too. (The xattr in question is called "com.apple.ResourceFork" and I'm presuming is structurally similar to a resource fork in classic Mac OS.)
CharlesW 4y ago
> Anyone have an idea why modern versions of MacOS still uses a .DS_Store file? The Wikipedia article is a pretty good resource for this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.DS_Store https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.DS_Store
gorgoiler 4y ago
If you know what a dotfile is, it’s there for the same reason. (Dotfiles are per-user system configuration options written as a file in the user’s home directory. This means that for any system on which that home directory exists, that user’s configuration options will be applied. If the home directory is shared across multiple computers over a network, or if it is backed up from one computer and restored to another, then that user’s settings will persist.) If these settings were stored in some other central database then if you copied the macOS folder from one computer to another, your copy tool would have to know how copy the settings as well. Keeping those settings inside the folder itself means that your copy tool only needs to know about copying folders, instead of copying folders and also copying settings. It’s one of those Unix principles where everything is treated as a file: an elegant technique for a more civilized age.
dreamcompiler 4y ago
.DS_Store is not part of HFS+ or APFS. It's a kludge to give the OSX Finder a place to store its own metadata. MacOS prior to X had much more elegant solutions to the problem. To this day, when you switch to/from icon/list view in the Finder, more windows than just the current one switch. In MacOS 9 that loosey-goosey unpredictable behavior never happened.
- illiarian 4y ago
  > To this day, when you switch to/from icon/list view in the Finder, more windows than just the current one switch And there's almost no way to make this behavior stick because... it's different if you click through folders and if you click on pinned folders in Finder sidebar. I mean... How?!
  - iakov 4y ago
    Don't even get me started on the "Upload" dialog that can't remember that I want it to show dates and sort by them. It resets every time to the worst possible view - list, sorted alphabetically. So annoying. All other desktop OSes I've used got the upload windows remembering their settings, but not MacOS. Maybe the technology is just not there yet.

GeekyBear 4y ago

>Anyone have an idea why modern versions of MacOS still uses a .DS_Store file? For the exact same reason Windows has a Desktop.ini file? They store per directory settings for the Mac Finder and Windows Explorer.

alin23 4y ago

The file is used for storing layouts (show as icons/list/grid etc.) and various settings (sorting, grouping etc.). Storing a local file inside the directory allows for moving that directory around while also keeping those settings. The file is invisible for users of Finder so it is still the best solution for this task. I have a .DS_Store line in a global .gitignore and don't notice it much but when I'm annoyed by DS_Store files in a specific directory, I usually bulk delete them using `fd`: fd -u --type file --fixed-strings .DS_Store $HOME/Projects/some-file-server-project -x echo rm {}

gcr 4y ago
i'm surprised that Apple doesn't do directory-level metadata directly in the filesystem itself, e.g. with xattrs on the directory inode.
- Tagbert 4y ago
  It does store that metadata in the directing in Mac OS native file systems. The DS files are only for non-Mac file systems like FAT32.
  - Tagbert 4y ago
    “Directory” not “Directing”
  - sthrs 4y ago
    This is not true. My APFS volumes are absolutely littered with .DS_Stores. They're generated every time you open a directory in the Finder.

Lt_Riza_Hawkeye 4y ago

I believe if you've dragged some files around in that folder, it stores where those were. Or if you've set the folder to sort by name or date modified, etc.

russellbeattie 4y ago
I've noticed that the .DS_Store file doesn't appear in a directory until I've clicked the triangle in a list view to see the contents of a subfolder. Then it creates one, I assume, to keep track of which subfolders are open.
- dreamcompiler 4y ago
  Correct. If you create a new directory in the Terminal and populate it, it won't have a .DS_Store file. The Finder creates .DS_Store when you view the directory in the Finder.
MBCook 4y ago
Right. I would assume custom icons and labels (do those still e its?). Basically it seems to be the replacement for the old resource fork data on non-Apple file systems.
- kitsunesoba 4y ago
  I think you're right that .DS_Store handles labels, but custom icons are done with a second invisible file in the folder titled "Icon?" which apparently stores the icon data in its resource fork.
- JonathonW 4y ago
  Labels and custom icons on files are stored in extended attributes (implemented as named forks on HFS+; not sure about APFS but the OS presents them all as xattrs regardless of FS) on the files themselves in APFS and HFS+. Custom icons for folders are stored in a special "Icon?" hidden file, but not actually in the file's normal data-- they're in an extended attribute too. (The xattr in question is called "com.apple.ResourceFork" and I'm presuming is structurally similar to a resource fork in classic Mac OS.)

CharlesW 4y ago

> Anyone have an idea why modern versions of MacOS still uses a .DS_Store file? The Wikipedia article is a pretty good resource for this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.DS_Store https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.DS_Store

gorgoiler 4y ago

If you know what a dotfile is, it’s there for the same reason. (Dotfiles are per-user system configuration options written as a file in the user’s home directory. This means that for any system on which that home directory exists, that user’s configuration options will be applied. If the home directory is shared across multiple computers over a network, or if it is backed up from one computer and restored to another, then that user’s settings will persist.) If these settings were stored in some other central database then if you copied the macOS folder from one computer to another, your copy tool would have to know how copy the settings as well. Keeping those settings inside the folder itself means that your copy tool only needs to know about copying folders, instead of copying folders and also copying settings. It’s one of those Unix principles where everything is treated as a file: an elegant technique for a more civilized age.

dreamcompiler 4y ago

.DS_Store is not part of HFS+ or APFS. It's a kludge to give the OSX Finder a place to store its own metadata. MacOS prior to X had much more elegant solutions to the problem. To this day, when you switch to/from icon/list view in the Finder, more windows than just the current one switch. In MacOS 9 that loosey-goosey unpredictable behavior never happened.

illiarian 4y ago
> To this day, when you switch to/from icon/list view in the Finder, more windows than just the current one switch And there's almost no way to make this behavior stick because... it's different if you click through folders and if you click on pinned folders in Finder sidebar. I mean... How?!
- iakov 4y ago
  Don't even get me started on the "Upload" dialog that can't remember that I want it to show dates and sort by them. It resets every time to the worst possible view - list, sorted alphabetically. So annoying. All other desktop OSes I've used got the upload windows remembering their settings, but not MacOS. Maybe the technology is just not there yet.