6 ms·

> 1. The experience on Windows is terrible. They can claim it's cross-platform but it's truly a sub-par product. Like a lot of other Apple stuff, I'm only able

> 1. The experience on Windows is terrible. They can claim it's cross-platform but it's truly a sub-par product. Like a lot of other Apple stuff, I'm only able to use it because I don't use anything non-Apple for anything "serious" that involves a GUI. Windows is for gaming, Linux is my file storage and docker-service-running server that I only interact with over SSH and Web. Ditto Notes, all their Office-type programs, et c. I'd probably be on a lot more Google shit if I needed more cross-platform access to that stuff. > 2. On Mac it's tied specifically to Safari. I use Safari a lot but if I'm in a different browser then my passwords are unavailable. Yeah, this is super fucking weird. You'd think this would be connected in some fashion to "keychain", but nope. > 3. The GUI is buried in System Settings. Heaven forbid you need search it's only a simple 37 clicks away! IDGAF about clicks because I search my way to everything in Apple's settings—what does bother me is that they've made search worse in the last couple versions of iOS, and that if I type "pass" in search, "Passwords" isn't even visible on the list yet. I can get all the way to "password" and it's still the fourth entry. The fucking name of the screen is "passwords"! I shouldn't have to get farther than "pas" for it to be the first entry on the list, "pass" in the worst-case! Even fully typing "passwords" still leaves it as the second entry (of three) on my device. WTF.

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
klodolph 4y ago
> Yeah, this is super fucking weird. You'd think this would be connected in some fashion to "keychain", but nope. Other browsers used to be able to use it. I do think it’s a really thorny issue—“allow this application to access all saved passwords?” is a pretty damn scary permission to include. Up there with the “allow this application to control your computer” permission that is used for accessibility apps (which apps can abuse to read passwords, if I understand correctly). Apple’s tradition. Make the platform more secure, add an exception for first-party apps, and let the other browsers fuck off.
- tim333 4y ago
  Something could pop up saying "Fill password for HSBC Bank?" or similar and you click one button.
- dan-robertson 4y ago
  Yeah, I a think other browsers want to be able to test whether there is a saved password or not, and get the corresponding username, which is quite a big permission to give away. For actually filling in the password they could maybe offer a pop up where the user must authorise the app using biometrics or some other OS-level action. That’s already the experience with safari.
- musicale 4y ago
  > allow this application to access all saved passwords I'd like to see finer granularity, perhaps multiple web password vaults and a mechanism to allow certain browsers to use certain vaults. It might also be nice to specify which passwords could be accessed with which kind of authentication. Unfortunately the current system password dialog is easily spoofable - it really looks like a questionable javascript popup.
  - imoverclocked 4y ago
    What would that look like? Do you expect a prompt for every website you visit (Would you like to allow permission for Firefox/Chrome/whatever to view/store your password for "abcd.example.com"?) Would the permission be tied to the name of the app or the hash of the app? How do you securely identify the browser? Signed apps? Signed via a developer key -- trust the developer so that you can use Chrome as well as Chrome Beta? The above is not a critique but certainly a list of things that lead to the possibility of a repeat of the infamous Windows popup for every single action you want to do out of the box. This leads to either decision fatigue or a pre-programmed "yes, just do it" response from the vast majority of users. I personally think it should be an all-or-nothing type of allowance for this reason. Maybe the better way would be tracking access to passwords in Keychain. ie: Chrome+Safari+Firefox have all accessed your credentials for google.com but only Safari has seen your iCloud credentials and only Chrome has seen your HN credentials.
knodi123 4y ago
> The fucking name of the screen is "passwords"! I shouldn't have to get farther than "pas" for it to be the first entry on the list, "pass" in the worst-case! Weird. "pas" and it was top of the list for me.
- amluto 4y ago
  In Spotlight, I need “passw” to see it. In the actual Settings search, I also need “passw”, and that only gets it to #5 in the list. Also, Spotlight is bizarrely slow finding even local apps and things like Passwords. WTF
  - eastbound 4y ago
    Did you tell it to ignore most local files?
    - rrsmtz 4y ago
      Wow! Just discovered the Spotlight customization and it is so much faster and more useful when you remove certain locations and turn off definitions and Siri suggestions.
      - amluto 4y ago
        That sounds delightful. Sadly, while Apple documents “Suggestions in Search”, and I can even see that option when I search Settings for Siri, the option itself is missing from the Siri & Search page.
- lttlrck 4y ago
  I get the same result as the parent. Search in Settings has gotten a lot worse with time.
- ulfw 4y ago
  When I type just "p" it's the second top most result. When I type "pa" it's already the first result.
johnwalkr 4y ago
I use windows almost only for gaming (and CAD) too, and I've found that recently that the webapps, especially music and notes are good enough, and icloud drive and photos integration to windows actually work well. But yes, passwords is annoying. You can use them on chrome on windows but not on MacOS, and on Windows it doesn't work on anything but chrome. Speaking of gaming, game launchers on windows can't get passwords from Apple and also seem to log me out all the time, so I have to revert to using my phone to see my password and manually type it in.
keyle 4y ago
>> 2. On Mac it's tied specifically to Safari. I use Safari a lot but if I'm in a different browser then my passwords are unavailable. > Yeah, this is super fucking weird. You'd think this would be connected in some fashion to "keychain", but nope No it's not. I don't want some exotic product connect to a domain I have passwords in and prompting me for access. The password should be tied to the product you used to login with. This is a misunderstanding of keychain vs. lastpass. One is designed to remember "safari passwords" or any swift/cocoa application implementing keychain. One key feature is: once stored in Keychain this information is only available to your app, other apps can't see it. Lastpass and other similar products are designed as a data warehouse / vault for you security items. From there, plugins in browsers etc. can take over. I will totally agree with the fact that the GUI is frustrating at best.
- Thlom 4y ago
  But on iOS I can use keychain from apps to find login information that is stored from Safari?
hnrodey 4y ago
Yeah, I'm also a heavy user Spotlight Search and it's still impossible to get to Keychain settings. I suppose my higher level point was that it's damn near impossible to efficiently get to the keychain settings.
- ideamotor 4y ago
  Alfred?
- metafunctor 4y ago
  Not impossible at all. For me, ⌘-space, then typing pass is enough for Spotlight Search to suggest the Passwords section in System Settings.
coldtea 4y ago
>Yeah, this is super fucking weird. You'd think this would be connected in some fashion to "keychain", but nope. It probably very much is. But Google would never add Keychain integration when they want to push you to their own password manager within Chrome
birdyrooster 4y ago
I can never tell if Apple is trying to kill macOS, but it’s things like this that make me wonder.
AdamN 4y ago
Step 63 of Mac setup is optimizing Spotlight by excluding a bunch of stuff from being indexed - kind of annoying but that's the solution

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

klodolph 4y ago

> Yeah, this is super fucking weird. You'd think this would be connected in some fashion to "keychain", but nope. Other browsers used to be able to use it. I do think it’s a really thorny issue—“allow this application to access all saved passwords?” is a pretty damn scary permission to include. Up there with the “allow this application to control your computer” permission that is used for accessibility apps (which apps can abuse to read passwords, if I understand correctly). Apple’s tradition. Make the platform more secure, add an exception for first-party apps, and let the other browsers fuck off.

tim333 4y ago
Something could pop up saying "Fill password for HSBC Bank?" or similar and you click one button.
dan-robertson 4y ago
Yeah, I a think other browsers want to be able to test whether there is a saved password or not, and get the corresponding username, which is quite a big permission to give away. For actually filling in the password they could maybe offer a pop up where the user must authorise the app using biometrics or some other OS-level action. That’s already the experience with safari.
musicale 4y ago
> allow this application to access all saved passwords I'd like to see finer granularity, perhaps multiple web password vaults and a mechanism to allow certain browsers to use certain vaults. It might also be nice to specify which passwords could be accessed with which kind of authentication. Unfortunately the current system password dialog is easily spoofable - it really looks like a questionable javascript popup.
- imoverclocked 4y ago
  What would that look like? Do you expect a prompt for every website you visit (Would you like to allow permission for Firefox/Chrome/whatever to view/store your password for "abcd.example.com"?) Would the permission be tied to the name of the app or the hash of the app? How do you securely identify the browser? Signed apps? Signed via a developer key -- trust the developer so that you can use Chrome as well as Chrome Beta? The above is not a critique but certainly a list of things that lead to the possibility of a repeat of the infamous Windows popup for every single action you want to do out of the box. This leads to either decision fatigue or a pre-programmed "yes, just do it" response from the vast majority of users. I personally think it should be an all-or-nothing type of allowance for this reason. Maybe the better way would be tracking access to passwords in Keychain. ie: Chrome+Safari+Firefox have all accessed your credentials for google.com but only Safari has seen your iCloud credentials and only Chrome has seen your HN credentials.

knodi123 4y ago

> The fucking name of the screen is "passwords"! I shouldn't have to get farther than "pas" for it to be the first entry on the list, "pass" in the worst-case! Weird. "pas" and it was top of the list for me.

amluto 4y ago
In Spotlight, I need “passw” to see it. In the actual Settings search, I also need “passw”, and that only gets it to #5 in the list. Also, Spotlight is bizarrely slow finding even local apps and things like Passwords. WTF
- eastbound 4y ago
  Did you tell it to ignore most local files?
  - rrsmtz 4y ago
    Wow! Just discovered the Spotlight customization and it is so much faster and more useful when you remove certain locations and turn off definitions and Siri suggestions.
    - amluto 4y ago
      That sounds delightful. Sadly, while Apple documents “Suggestions in Search”, and I can even see that option when I search Settings for Siri, the option itself is missing from the Siri & Search page.
lttlrck 4y ago
I get the same result as the parent. Search in Settings has gotten a lot worse with time.
ulfw 4y ago
When I type just "p" it's the second top most result. When I type "pa" it's already the first result.

johnwalkr 4y ago

I use windows almost only for gaming (and CAD) too, and I've found that recently that the webapps, especially music and notes are good enough, and icloud drive and photos integration to windows actually work well. But yes, passwords is annoying. You can use them on chrome on windows but not on MacOS, and on Windows it doesn't work on anything but chrome. Speaking of gaming, game launchers on windows can't get passwords from Apple and also seem to log me out all the time, so I have to revert to using my phone to see my password and manually type it in.

keyle 4y ago

>> 2. On Mac it's tied specifically to Safari. I use Safari a lot but if I'm in a different browser then my passwords are unavailable. > Yeah, this is super fucking weird. You'd think this would be connected in some fashion to "keychain", but nope No it's not. I don't want some exotic product connect to a domain I have passwords in and prompting me for access. The password should be tied to the product you used to login with. This is a misunderstanding of keychain vs. lastpass. One is designed to remember "safari passwords" or any swift/cocoa application implementing keychain. One key feature is: once stored in Keychain this information is only available to your app, other apps can't see it. Lastpass and other similar products are designed as a data warehouse / vault for you security items. From there, plugins in browsers etc. can take over. I will totally agree with the fact that the GUI is frustrating at best.

Thlom 4y ago
But on iOS I can use keychain from apps to find login information that is stored from Safari?

hnrodey 4y ago

Yeah, I'm also a heavy user Spotlight Search and it's still impossible to get to Keychain settings. I suppose my higher level point was that it's damn near impossible to efficiently get to the keychain settings.

ideamotor 4y ago
Alfred?
metafunctor 4y ago
Not impossible at all. For me, ⌘-space, then typing pass is enough for Spotlight Search to suggest the Passwords section in System Settings.

coldtea 4y ago

>Yeah, this is super fucking weird. You'd think this would be connected in some fashion to "keychain", but nope. It probably very much is. But Google would never add Keychain integration when they want to push you to their own password manager within Chrome

birdyrooster 4y ago

I can never tell if Apple is trying to kill macOS, but it’s things like this that make me wonder.

AdamN 4y ago

Step 63 of Mac setup is optimizing Spotlight by excluding a bunch of stuff from being indexed - kind of annoying but that's the solution