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This is neat, but I wish we’d move from retrofitting Gaggia Classics to something more modern. Decent Espresso showed us that boiler machines for home use are a
by fellowmartian 4y ago
This is neat, but I wish we’d move from retrofitting Gaggia Classics to something more modern. Decent Espresso showed us that boiler machines for home use are a dead end, because they have too much thermal mass for rapid switching between brewing and steaming.
This is why I initially considered buying a Gaggia and modding it, but ultimately got a Breville Infuser as it basically comes pre-modded and is thermocoil-based, so you can quickly switching to steaming. It’s not the fastest steaming in the world, but I think it’s actually good for beginners to learn how to steam on a slow machine.
- nicolaslem 4y ago> Decent Espresso showed us that boiler machines for home use are a dead end. Do you mean single boiler machines? Many home machines have no problem switching because they just use two boilers, one for brewing and one for steaming.
- horsawlarway 4y agoYeah, double boiler is very, very worth it IMO. Our machine has a 300ml boiler for brewing the shot, and a 1 liter boiler for the steam wand and hot water wand, and it's great. I can pull shots quickly after turning the machine on because the 300ml boiler heats up fast. Steaming takes a few minutes to heat up, but once there it'll keep going for a long time, and I can keep pulling shots at the right temp in the mean time. Way happier with the double boiler machine than I was with the single boiler we used to use. Much less planning required for my own use and I can actually serve several guests a nice espresso/latte/cappuccino from the machine in a reasonable time.
- nicolaslem 4y agoI agree, having the two parts of the machine working independently from each other makes a big difference even at home. Dual boilers are more common but the same concept applies to machines with dual thermocoils, like the one I picked.
- fatnoah 4y agoJumping on the double-boiler fan train. My family likes lattes and I like espressos. I make them one at a time, and it's nice to go from pulling the shot, to steam, next shot & steam, etc.
- ElCapitanMarkla 4y agoI'll be doing this when I need to replace my machine, I went with the Breville Barista Pro which has been fantastic but whenever the families turn up I might end up making 6-8 coffees in a row. The double boiler would have saved me quite some time over the last few years.
- prpl 4y agoLelit is the counterpoint to that - I have a Lelit Elizabeth which, while expensive, is a fraction of what a Decent costs - So I’m not sure “don’t use boilers” pans out.
- mixedCase 4y agoYep, even the Lelit Bianca which is a dual-boiler and has both flow control and a pressure knob is still cheaper than the cheapest Decent despite the much more robust build.
- pnut 4y agoAnother vote for Lelit, I have an Anna PL41TEM with the PID controller, have made 2-3 perfect espressos every day, 7 days a week, since 2017 like clockwork. That's >4,000 shots and counting... A very solid piece of kit.
- nullityrofl 4y agoDual boiler machines have been a perfectly fine solution to this problem for a very, very long time. Decent's offering is good but vastly overcomplicated for the majority of people who don't want a tablet on their coffee machine in their kitchen. I much prefer the tactile experience of using a traditional espresso machine.
- roflyear 4y agoDecent has awful software, and the owner is also kind of a backwards-thinking stuck up dude, so...
- malermeister 4y agoCould you share more details on the owner?
- LesZedCB 4y agomost of the bad stuff is interpersonal drama caused by the fact that John (Decent Owner) is fully committed to TCL for app and firmware development. some prominent community members have rewritten a lot of the front end using python and JS. when disagreements and call outs arose between this group and the owner, well, access to the company Basecamp is controlled by the owners. there are big personalities all around. as somebody who enjoys a bit of the popcorn but is uninvested in the outcome, it's not a big deal as a consumer of the machine. if you want to hack on the software, his personality is probably going to affect you a little more. of course, somebody else may step in to give a different historical account.
- mometsi 4y agoNo, and I do not even know him, but it irritates me to hear him everywhere called 'the Decent'.
- roflyear 4y agoHe abuses the idea of open source to get free work for his commercial product. They have invested near 0 dollars into development of the tablet application.
- roflyear 4y agoHave you seen: https://meticuloushome.com/ https://meticuloushome.com/ seems to be what you're looking for. Not on market yet.
- boomskats 4y agoNot for another couple of days!
- eirikbakke 4y agoSwitching from brewing to steaming takes about 4 minutes on a single-boiler Rancilio, during which I can prepare the rest of the breakfast or empty the dishwasher. For home use, this is very practical. Besides, a single boiler means less work to descale the machine, and fewer components that can break.
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- WastingMyTime89 4y ago> Decent Espresso showed us that boiler machines for home use are a dead end, because they have too much thermal mass for rapid switching between brewing and steaming. I will hasard that most espresso machine owners are like me, just like espresso and never steam. I can count on one hand the number of time I used my Silvia steam wand in the past five years. I think regular milk drinks are mostly an American thing.
- thot_experiment 4y agoI grew up in eastern europe and I've been drinking lattes since I was little. (though I didn't know they were called lattes until much later, milk was just part of coffee for me) My Silvia steams a few lattes every day. ymmv Reading the rest of this thread it seems like I should look into moving to Australia for broader coffee compatibility with my peers.
- klausa 4y agoI would be very surprised if that was the case; you'd see much more machines out there that omit the steaming wand entirely. While _I_ mostly drink espressos when making coffee for myself, I think overall I made more flat whites for my wife and any friends that come over, then I did shots just for myself on my machine.
- marcosdumay 4y agoIf you have two machines with very similar price and quality, but one was espresso-only, and the other had a steamer, what do you think the people that only drink espressos would buy? Zero marginal cost features have some very unusual economics.
- nightski 4y agoThey exist. If I was going that route I'd probably get a Flair 58. But I love a steam wand.
- dkasper 4y agoAbsolutely not. Lattes and cappuccinos were invented in Italy after all.
- inasio 4y agoI've been meaning to upgrade from a Breville Bambino, but key for me is a machine I can turn on and brew coffee right away on a whim (small footprint would also be nice), but I haven't found any options between the Brevilles and the Decent.
- cjrp 4y agoI have my Gaggia Classic connected to a smart plug. Okay, it’s not _instant_, but I can decide I want a coffee, turn on the machine from my phone and it’ll be heated by the time I go and make it.
- inasio 4y agoI know this is how many people do it, it strikes me as surprising that you don't need this compromise at the very low end (Breville Bambino), nor at the high end (Decent), but there's nothing in between
- 2muchcoffeeman 4y agoYou can get a normal basket for your Bambino. As long as your grinder is decent, should be fine.
- eschneider 4y agoI'll admit to being a complete heathen and warming milk in the microwave and frothing it with a $10 hand wand before pouring it over my moka pot brewed expression, but I'm happy with my coffee.
- newsclues 4y agoI hope this is more of a proof of concept. I think this is an example of part of the future of manufacturing. Some things will be built from COTS parts. Others will be built as custom one offs. Obviously there will be products made with a hybrid of methods of building things. But increasing there will be an industry of people taking products and modding or rebuilding them. From people who upgrade cars, to modding watches for a unique look. Or taking a common product like an expresso maker and make it open like this, which could end up creating a market for COTS parts instead of modding old products. As much as people are excited about 3D printing and high end technology for manufacturing, rebuilding and upgrading old junk has huge potential, as companies converting old cars into EVs have found.
- ubermonkey 4y ago>Decent Espresso showed us that boiler machines for home use are a dead end I don't think this is true. I think what you may mean is that SINGLE boiler machines are not great for people who want to make drinks that involve steaming. Many people make only espresso, and don't use milk at all. A single boiler is going to be fine for them. Many people who like milk drinks use double-boiler machines, which work beautifully (e.g., my Rocket R58).
- wrycoder 4y agoMy Gaggia would be too slow for a commercial operation, but, if I flip the switch to steam right after the shot, by the time I go to the fridge and pour out 200 ml milk and walk back to the machine, it’s ready to steam. And, you need to flip the switch back to coffee right after steaming and then run the brew switch to refill the boiler, which pulls the temp down. I’d still like a PID control with a readout, though.
- waythenewsgoes 4y agoAuber instruments makes a PID integration kit for the gaggia classic / classic pro. It also gives you a pre infusion cycle as well.
- newaccount74 4y agoWe have a single boiler / dual circuit espresso machine [1], and I think it's a perfect home espresso machine. The only thing that annoys me about it is how loud the vibration pump is, I guess a rotary pump would be nicer. It's mechanically extremely simple, there are no electronics that can fail, it takes 10 minutes to heat up, and I can pull shots and steam continuously without switching between the modes. Granted, it doesn't have precise temperature or pressure control, so the only way to control the extraction process is by changing the amount of coffee, or how fine you grind it. If you want to do barista competitions, this is not the machine for you. But if you just want to enjoy good espressos and cappucinos at home, then tech from the 1960s is good enough. [1]: https://www.dieroester.at/maschinen/bfc/ela https://www.dieroester.at/maschinen/bfc/ela