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Given the headline, you'd think Bitcoin would maybe be bothered, right? Wrong? Bitcoin started the year at $16.6k USD and is currently $26.9k USD (a return of

Given the headline, you'd think Bitcoin would maybe be bothered, right? Wrong? Bitcoin started the year at $16.6k USD and is currently $26.9k USD (a return of 62% year to date). Why? Who/what is dumping money into Bitcoin that would cause this much demand? Can the rise in price be attributed to demand? I don't see how it couldn't be. How many millions of USD have been converted into "buy and hold" long term BTC investments? Is that the main driving force for this increase in price? It has to be a very sizable amount for BTC to be outperforming every other asset class... right? There's no way the price is artificially up 60%+? How could it stay propped up? I've seen it mentioned many times before that crypto can possibly be manipulated by whales or "smoke and mirrors" if you will. Coinmarketcap.com says Bitcoin volume in 24 hours is roughly 615,000 BTC ($16b, 3% of the total circulating supply) Is there more money going into BTC (inflow) than SPY/VOO/VTI/IVV/QQQ/mutual funds? I wouldn't imagine so. Why is the money that is making it into BTC (is the average middle American dollar cost averaging a portion of their paycheck bi-weekly into BTC through Coinbase?) able to increase BTC 60% YTD but a more sizable portion of money (because we can assume the stock market is much much larger of an investment vehicle) going into SPY/VOO/VTI/IVV/QQQ/mutual funds leads to a lesser return (SPY is up 3.95% YTD with like 1/4th of a 1.6%/year dividend in the process of being paid out so far, so call it 3.95% + (1.6%/4 quarters=0.40% quarterly dividend, Q1 just being paid out) = 4.35% return

NotYourLawyer 4y ago
It’s the tether lending machine.
- gruez 4y ago
  It wasn't operating last year when bitcoin was crashing?
  - MuffinFlavored 4y ago
    Why/how was Bitcoin able to recover from its last crash? I get that "sentiment changed". But... who? Who was "afraid" of Bitcoin when sam bankman-fried got arrested/FTX collapsed, sold their coins, waited, saw everything get better, bought back in? Based on the price action, we'd have to assume a LOT of people have done that. Like, enough for it to shoot fall 21k -> 15k on the FTX news, then 15k -> back up to 26k. I just don't get it. Who is dollar cost averaging into Bitcoin with their fiat (USD, EUR, GBP, JPY, whatever it is) every paycheck? Millions of people? Where's the proof, other than the fact that "the price is up"?
    - flanfly 4y ago
      I'm not sure whether this is sarcasm, but in case it's not: I do.
      - MuffinFlavored 4y ago
        Do you do this on top of investing U.S. equities for retirement? What % do you invest in equities versus crypto? What % of your net worth is exposed to crypto and what % minority are you in for perspective for doing so (aka, if 50% of your net worth is exposed to crypto, you're obviously in a very small niche group and "biased")
jjulius 4y ago
>Given the headline, you'd think Bitcoin would maybe be bothered, right? Wrong? >Bitcoin started the year at $16.6k USD and is currently $26.9k USD (a return of 62% year to date). You're citing the growth in the last almost four months as evidence that Bitcoin isn't bothered by news that broke about an hour ago?
- MuffinFlavored 4y ago
  I just want to learn why Bitcoin is being taken so seriously as an asset class that it's outperforming bonds, equities, gold, silver, real estate, etc. (or if it is really, or if the price is being manipulated, and if so, how is that manipulation able to operate at this scale).
  - voxic11 4y ago
    People are losing faith in the dollar. High inflation and bank runs play into this belief.
    - sleepybrett 4y ago
      You mean like all the bank runs and high inflation in the crypto space?
Nursie 4y ago
> Who/what is dumping money into Bitcoin that would cause this much demand? As usual, there's no way to tell if the demand is synthetic, or anything other than invented stablecoins and fake volume, because the entire market is deliberately opaque.
ninepoints 4y ago
[flagged]
bluecalm 4y ago
Most Bitcoins are not bought with USD but with Tether and other stable coins. Tether is printed at the pace of billions per week recently so no wonder it lifts all the boats in crypto world.
- MuffinFlavored 4y ago
  > Most Bitcoins are not bought with USD but with Tether and other stable coins. Isn't this like a pedantic detail? How is Tether bought? USD/EUR/GBP/JPY, right? Fiat -> stablecoin -> BTC Fiat -> BTC basically the same journey my point is, according to this https://markets.chainalysis.com/ https://markets.chainalysis.com/ there's $3b/day in BTC inflows...
  - Nursie 4y ago
    > How is Tether bought? Nobody knows.
    - from 4y ago
      https://app.tether.to https://app.tether.to with wire transfer. There are high minimums, KYC requirements, and excluded jurisdictions (notably the US). Depending on your opinion these onerous requirements exist either for regulatory reasons or to prevent a bank run because Tether is not fully backed.
      - Nursie 4y ago
        The point is that nobody can really say that all tether is bought this way, that there is a genuine flow from cash to the tether company to exchanges, and there are very reasonable suspicions that tether is just magicked into existence for use on friendly/complicit exchanges to help control the price. Perhaps I should have said it's less a question of how tether is bought and more a question of if tether can be said to be bought, at its point of origin.
  - nrb 4y ago
    > How is Tether bought? USD/EUR/GBP/JPY, right? The question is how much tether is originating as part of a cash transaction vs how much is being minted out of thin air specifically to buoy the price of cryptos.

NotYourLawyer 4y ago

It’s the tether lending machine.

gruez 4y ago
It wasn't operating last year when bitcoin was crashing?
- MuffinFlavored 4y ago
  Why/how was Bitcoin able to recover from its last crash? I get that "sentiment changed". But... who? Who was "afraid" of Bitcoin when sam bankman-fried got arrested/FTX collapsed, sold their coins, waited, saw everything get better, bought back in? Based on the price action, we'd have to assume a LOT of people have done that. Like, enough for it to shoot fall 21k -> 15k on the FTX news, then 15k -> back up to 26k. I just don't get it. Who is dollar cost averaging into Bitcoin with their fiat (USD, EUR, GBP, JPY, whatever it is) every paycheck? Millions of people? Where's the proof, other than the fact that "the price is up"?
  - flanfly 4y ago
    I'm not sure whether this is sarcasm, but in case it's not: I do.
    - MuffinFlavored 4y ago
      Do you do this on top of investing U.S. equities for retirement? What % do you invest in equities versus crypto? What % of your net worth is exposed to crypto and what % minority are you in for perspective for doing so (aka, if 50% of your net worth is exposed to crypto, you're obviously in a very small niche group and "biased")

jjulius 4y ago

>Given the headline, you'd think Bitcoin would maybe be bothered, right? Wrong? >Bitcoin started the year at $16.6k USD and is currently $26.9k USD (a return of 62% year to date). You're citing the growth in the last almost four months as evidence that Bitcoin isn't bothered by news that broke about an hour ago?

MuffinFlavored 4y ago
I just want to learn why Bitcoin is being taken so seriously as an asset class that it's outperforming bonds, equities, gold, silver, real estate, etc. (or if it is really, or if the price is being manipulated, and if so, how is that manipulation able to operate at this scale).
- voxic11 4y ago
  People are losing faith in the dollar. High inflation and bank runs play into this belief.
  - sleepybrett 4y ago
    You mean like all the bank runs and high inflation in the crypto space?

Nursie 4y ago

> Who/what is dumping money into Bitcoin that would cause this much demand? As usual, there's no way to tell if the demand is synthetic, or anything other than invented stablecoins and fake volume, because the entire market is deliberately opaque.

ninepoints 4y ago

[flagged]

bluecalm 4y ago

Most Bitcoins are not bought with USD but with Tether and other stable coins. Tether is printed at the pace of billions per week recently so no wonder it lifts all the boats in crypto world.

MuffinFlavored 4y ago
> Most Bitcoins are not bought with USD but with Tether and other stable coins. Isn't this like a pedantic detail? How is Tether bought? USD/EUR/GBP/JPY, right? Fiat -> stablecoin -> BTC Fiat -> BTC basically the same journey my point is, according to this https://markets.chainalysis.com/ https://markets.chainalysis.com/ there's $3b/day in BTC inflows...
- Nursie 4y ago
  > How is Tether bought? Nobody knows.
  - from 4y ago
    https://app.tether.to https://app.tether.to with wire transfer. There are high minimums, KYC requirements, and excluded jurisdictions (notably the US). Depending on your opinion these onerous requirements exist either for regulatory reasons or to prevent a bank run because Tether is not fully backed.
    - Nursie 4y ago
      The point is that nobody can really say that all tether is bought this way, that there is a genuine flow from cash to the tether company to exchanges, and there are very reasonable suspicions that tether is just magicked into existence for use on friendly/complicit exchanges to help control the price. Perhaps I should have said it's less a question of how tether is bought and more a question of if tether can be said to be bought, at its point of origin.
- nrb 4y ago
  > How is Tether bought? USD/EUR/GBP/JPY, right? The question is how much tether is originating as part of a cash transaction vs how much is being minted out of thin air specifically to buoy the price of cryptos.