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>Germans are probably the most privacy conscious people in the western world Yeah, that's why every morning on the tram I see the average Germans texting on Ti

>Germans are probably the most privacy conscious people in the western world Yeah, that's why every morning on the tram I see the average Germans texting on Tinder, WhatsApp, Snapchat, Telegram, and mindlessly scrolling through Instagram and TikTok, the most privacy focused apps on the planet. Sounds very privacy conscious, handing your most intimate data to US & Chinese companies. Also, A lot of German are really into digital banks and brokers lately like N26, Scalable Capital, etc. which report everything to the Government authorities anyway, so I'm not buying the whole privacy angle. Cash usage at small businesses is mostly to enable tax fraud.

AlecSchueler 4y ago
Their lack of privacy consciousness doesn't imply that they aren't the world's most privacy conscious people, in a world where almost no one seems to care at all about their privacy. Germany is well known for giving support to political endeavors which help to ensure the privacy of citizens. Try looking around Munich on Street View.
postdb 4y ago
May be true, but if you ever being to Berlin, and you want to go to a restaurant, you better bring cash. No body accepts cards or electronic payments there. It is a breath of fresh air for privacy focused people.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- justeleblanc 4y ago
  This has nothing to do with privacy and everything to do with tax fraud.
  - rs999gti 4y ago
    And credit card transaction fees
    - ChuckNorris89 4y ago
      Most Germans and Europeans use debit cards for shopping IRL though which has very small transaction fees and yet many places won't take them.
VBprogrammer 4y ago
I think complete abstinence from the modern internet in a pretty high bar.
aleph_minus_one 4y ago
> Yeah, that's why every morning on the tram I see the average Germans texting on Tinder, WhatsApp, Snapchat, Telegram, and mindlessly scrolling through Instagram and TikTok, the most privacy focused apps on the planet. Sounds very privacy conscious, handing your most intimate data to US & Chinese companies. I know German people who will completely quit or at least strongly avoid contact to people who have an account at such services.
rpadovani 4y ago
Germany is the second to last country for IM apps usage in EU, with a mere 60% [0]. It is also the second to last country for social network accounts, with 47.7% of the population being on a social network[1]. Cash is still king[2]. Germans care about their privacy - maybe not everybody has clear all the implications of modern applications, but you cannot dismiss the care of privacy with just saying that your experience on a bus doesn't match this. [0]: https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/databrowser/view/ISOC_CI_AC_I__custom_545478/bookmark/table?lang=en&bookmarkId=0acbec03-1cf4-48c7-b4d1-ca6505e006fc https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/databrowser/view/ISOC_CI_AC_I_... [1]: https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/databrowser/view/ISOC_CI_AC_I__custom_545528/bookmark/table?lang=en&bookmarkId=a68d5be4-3d4d-4141-a528-f0839823c704 https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/databrowser/view/ISOC_CI_AC_I_... [2]: https://www.bundesbank.de/en/press/press-releases/payment-behaviour-in-germany-in-2021-894120 https://www.bundesbank.de/en/press/press-releases/payment-be...
- justeleblanc 4y ago
  In general, the low IM app usage just means that mobile phone plans are cheap. It's not like the US where you have to take a payday loan to send more than five SMS a month.
  - HideousKojima 4y ago
    What? Unlimited texting plans in the US can be had for $15/month, if not even cheaper.
    - justeleblanc 4y ago
      That's a recent thing. I remember spending a semester in the US a decade ago. My cheap student ass was surprised to see how expensive every mobile plan was. It was literally cheaper to buy a roaming plan in my own country for six months than to buy a plan in the US. Just FYI, here I pay 10€ for unlimited calls, text, and data, and 25GB roaming abroad per month.
  - VBprogrammer 4y ago
    I don't buy this. I've had unlimited SMS messages included for as many years as I can remember but pretty much exclusively use IMs. The media integration and things like that are just much better.
BjoernKW 4y ago
Germans in general are also highly reluctant towards digital payments, commonly citing "privacy" as a reason. However, the same people often have no qualms about using the - hilariously named - Payback loyalty programme, which keeps a record of individual consumer purchase behaviour.
- aleph_minus_one 4y ago
  > However, the same people often have no qualms about using the - hilariously named - Payback loyalty programme, which keeps a record of individual consumer purchase behaviour. Living in Germany, I know no one from my circles who uses Payback. This is in my gut feeling also a central reason why such loyalty programs push/nudge so hard to get people as customers - because so few people want them. The only time when such loyalty programs were tried out by quite some people in Germany was when in 2001 the Rabattgesetz [discount law; https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rabattgesetz https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rabattgesetz] was abolished. Then, for a short time, quite some people tried out the now upcoming loyalty programs, but soon stopped using them because quite some people were very vocal about telling the privacy implications of these loyalty programs.
  - BjoernKW 4y ago
    This still is a common exchange in German shops (in German, of course): "Will you pay cash or with credit card?" "Why, cash of course!" "Thanks. Do you have a Payback card?" "Certainly."
    - aleph_minus_one 4y ago
      > "Thanks. Do you have a Payback card?" > "Certainly." Rather: "Thanks. Do you have a Payback card?" - the person holds a speech about the privacy implications of Payback when there is a long queue at the checkout. :-D

AlecSchueler 4y ago

Their lack of privacy consciousness doesn't imply that they aren't the world's most privacy conscious people, in a world where almost no one seems to care at all about their privacy. Germany is well known for giving support to political endeavors which help to ensure the privacy of citizens. Try looking around Munich on Street View.

postdb 4y ago

May be true, but if you ever being to Berlin, and you want to go to a restaurant, you better bring cash. No body accepts cards or electronic payments there. It is a breath of fresh air for privacy focused people.

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
justeleblanc 4y ago
This has nothing to do with privacy and everything to do with tax fraud.
- rs999gti 4y ago
  And credit card transaction fees
  - ChuckNorris89 4y ago
    Most Germans and Europeans use debit cards for shopping IRL though which has very small transaction fees and yet many places won't take them.

VBprogrammer 4y ago

I think complete abstinence from the modern internet in a pretty high bar.

aleph_minus_one 4y ago

> Yeah, that's why every morning on the tram I see the average Germans texting on Tinder, WhatsApp, Snapchat, Telegram, and mindlessly scrolling through Instagram and TikTok, the most privacy focused apps on the planet. Sounds very privacy conscious, handing your most intimate data to US & Chinese companies. I know German people who will completely quit or at least strongly avoid contact to people who have an account at such services.

rpadovani 4y ago

Germany is the second to last country for IM apps usage in EU, with a mere 60% [0]. It is also the second to last country for social network accounts, with 47.7% of the population being on a social network[1]. Cash is still king[2]. Germans care about their privacy - maybe not everybody has clear all the implications of modern applications, but you cannot dismiss the care of privacy with just saying that your experience on a bus doesn't match this. [0]: https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/databrowser/view/ISOC_CI_AC_I__custom_545478/bookmark/table?lang=en&bookmarkId=0acbec03-1cf4-48c7-b4d1-ca6505e006fc https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/databrowser/view/ISOC_CI_AC_I_... [1]: https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/databrowser/view/ISOC_CI_AC_I__custom_545528/bookmark/table?lang=en&bookmarkId=a68d5be4-3d4d-4141-a528-f0839823c704 https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/databrowser/view/ISOC_CI_AC_I_... [2]: https://www.bundesbank.de/en/press/press-releases/payment-behaviour-in-germany-in-2021-894120 https://www.bundesbank.de/en/press/press-releases/payment-be...

justeleblanc 4y ago
In general, the low IM app usage just means that mobile phone plans are cheap. It's not like the US where you have to take a payday loan to send more than five SMS a month.
- HideousKojima 4y ago
  What? Unlimited texting plans in the US can be had for $15/month, if not even cheaper.
  - justeleblanc 4y ago
    That's a recent thing. I remember spending a semester in the US a decade ago. My cheap student ass was surprised to see how expensive every mobile plan was. It was literally cheaper to buy a roaming plan in my own country for six months than to buy a plan in the US. Just FYI, here I pay 10€ for unlimited calls, text, and data, and 25GB roaming abroad per month.
- VBprogrammer 4y ago
  I don't buy this. I've had unlimited SMS messages included for as many years as I can remember but pretty much exclusively use IMs. The media integration and things like that are just much better.

BjoernKW 4y ago

Germans in general are also highly reluctant towards digital payments, commonly citing "privacy" as a reason. However, the same people often have no qualms about using the - hilariously named - Payback loyalty programme, which keeps a record of individual consumer purchase behaviour.

aleph_minus_one 4y ago
> However, the same people often have no qualms about using the - hilariously named - Payback loyalty programme, which keeps a record of individual consumer purchase behaviour. Living in Germany, I know no one from my circles who uses Payback. This is in my gut feeling also a central reason why such loyalty programs push/nudge so hard to get people as customers - because so few people want them. The only time when such loyalty programs were tried out by quite some people in Germany was when in 2001 the Rabattgesetz [discount law; https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rabattgesetz https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rabattgesetz] was abolished. Then, for a short time, quite some people tried out the now upcoming loyalty programs, but soon stopped using them because quite some people were very vocal about telling the privacy implications of these loyalty programs.
- BjoernKW 4y ago
  This still is a common exchange in German shops (in German, of course): "Will you pay cash or with credit card?" "Why, cash of course!" "Thanks. Do you have a Payback card?" "Certainly."
  - aleph_minus_one 4y ago
    > "Thanks. Do you have a Payback card?" > "Certainly." Rather: "Thanks. Do you have a Payback card?" - the person holds a speech about the privacy implications of Payback when there is a long queue at the checkout. :-D