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The title is a bit misleading here. The article is actually arguing against the title. Europe is so heterogeneous that any claims about it as a whole are misle

The title is a bit misleading here. The article is actually arguing against the title. Europe is so heterogeneous that any claims about it as a whole are misleading at best. Germans are probably the most privacy conscious people in the western world, for reasons which should probably be obvious given their history.

dkjaudyeqooe 4y ago
> Europe is so heterogeneous that any claims about it as a whole are misleading at best. I don't think that's the case, especially among the younger generations which are largely English speaking and grew up with the internet. Also, for example, if you looked at the US in detail you'd find just as many cultural difference between individuals states, it's likely true of any large country or federation.
- aleph_minus_one 4y ago
  > I don't think that's the case, especially among the younger generations which are largely English speaking and grew up with the internet. In Germany and as far as I am aware also in France and Spain - all three are among the largest EU countries - the younger generation is hardly largely English-speaking. Only the more educated people (who studied at a university) are typically somewhat confident in their English, and at least in these three countries English is nevertheless only used as a second/"helper" language. With UK having left the EU, the only EU countries where English is an official language are Ireland and Malta; in both of these countries English is only one of the official languages, not the only one.
  - Semaphor 4y ago
    > the younger generation is hardly largely English-speaking I agree. While I don’t have any direct contact with younger people, our fantasy stores went from being 50/50 English/German products to having 99% in German.
    - yorwba 4y ago
      That indicates that there is no strong preference of English over German, but not that the people buying German products aren't largely English-speaking. If only 20% of German speakers don't speak English, then a store can expect a 25% boost in sales by offering a German version. And assuming German-English bilinguals are indifferent to the language, there's then little reason to offer the English product anymore. It's a winner-takes-all situation. (FWIW, first-time university students have consistently made up >50% of Germans in their respective age cohort for the past decade, so most ≈20–30 year-olds are in that university-educated English-speaking group.) https://www.destatis.de/DE/Themen/Gesellschaft-Umwelt/Bildung-Forschung-Kultur/Bildungsindikatoren/studienanfaengerquote-tabelle.html https://www.destatis.de/DE/Themen/Gesellschaft-Umwelt/Bildun...
      - Semaphor 4y ago
        Point taken. Though my experience in university (2005ish) was that most people could hold a conversation, but were often struggling with vocabulary and grammar. > And assuming German-English bilinguals are indifferent to the language Well, I stopped going to those stores because I prefer English, but I’m not exactly representative ;)
- justeleblanc 4y ago
  > I don't think that's the case, especially among the younger generations which are largely English speaking and grew up with the internet. Have you been to Europe outside of its big touristy capitals? To describe the younger generation as "largely English-speaking" is absurd. I'm from a medium-sized city in northern France. Go there and try speaking English to the young people in the street. See where that gets you.
  - dkjaudyeqooe 4y ago
    OK, maybe I should have been a bit more specific. Most young people speak some English is what I meant, not that it was their primary language, which is obviously not the case. I'm here in coastal Croatia and English ability is common, if mixed, with younger people being mostly proficient. Of course the French are in a class of their own when it comes to (not) speaking English, but I'd still posit there are plenty of young French people who speak or understand English to some degree. If I needed help on your streets with only English I'm sure there would be someone who would be able to help me out.
  - revelio 4y ago
    France is an exception. In most parts of Europe the young people speak excellent English or are even fluent. France takes a sort of cultural pride in the French language that other cultures don't.
    - justeleblanc 4y ago
      I've traveled a lot in Europe. People like to harp on France, but I've found that in most countries, outside big cities, English proficiency was not widespread.
      - revelio 4y ago
        Not been my experience but I guess it depends a lot on what you mean by proficiency. Also depends where you are and who you talk to. In the Nordics I never encountered a young person who wasn't nearly fluent in English. In bigger countries like Germany you can easily find people who don't speak English but they tend to themselves be immigrants and e.g. working in shops. Germans themselves learn it in school and do better.
ChuckNorris89 4y ago
>Germans are probably the most privacy conscious people in the western world Yeah, that's why every morning on the tram I see the average Germans texting on Tinder, WhatsApp, Snapchat, Telegram, and mindlessly scrolling through Instagram and TikTok, the most privacy focused apps on the planet. Sounds very privacy conscious, handing your most intimate data to US & Chinese companies. Also, A lot of German are really into digital banks and brokers lately like N26, Scalable Capital, etc. which report everything to the Government authorities anyway, so I'm not buying the whole privacy angle. Cash usage at small businesses is mostly to enable tax fraud.
- AlecSchueler 4y ago
  Their lack of privacy consciousness doesn't imply that they aren't the world's most privacy conscious people, in a world where almost no one seems to care at all about their privacy. Germany is well known for giving support to political endeavors which help to ensure the privacy of citizens. Try looking around Munich on Street View.
- postdb 4y ago
  May be true, but if you ever being to Berlin, and you want to go to a restaurant, you better bring cash. No body accepts cards or electronic payments there. It is a breath of fresh air for privacy focused people.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - justeleblanc 4y ago
    This has nothing to do with privacy and everything to do with tax fraud.
    - rs999gti 4y ago
      And credit card transaction fees
BjoernKW 4y ago
More often than not, "privacy" is merely used as an argument to avoid change and slow down progress, though. During the pandemic, for example, remote work tools were routinely criticised or even banned in Germany due to their supposed privacy implications - with schools and public administration often having been the worst offenders. There were civil servants who were "working from home", but in fact couldn't do any actual work because they were not allowed to access their department's intranet from home. There were even teachers who refused to use video conferencing solutions for teaching their classes. While some of that criticism regarding privacy issues with some of those tools might even have been valid, without suggesting a viable alternative, such criticism is pointless and detrimental, because all it achieves is to promote inertia and the status quo.

dkjaudyeqooe 4y ago

> Europe is so heterogeneous that any claims about it as a whole are misleading at best. I don't think that's the case, especially among the younger generations which are largely English speaking and grew up with the internet. Also, for example, if you looked at the US in detail you'd find just as many cultural difference between individuals states, it's likely true of any large country or federation.

aleph_minus_one 4y ago
> I don't think that's the case, especially among the younger generations which are largely English speaking and grew up with the internet. In Germany and as far as I am aware also in France and Spain - all three are among the largest EU countries - the younger generation is hardly largely English-speaking. Only the more educated people (who studied at a university) are typically somewhat confident in their English, and at least in these three countries English is nevertheless only used as a second/"helper" language. With UK having left the EU, the only EU countries where English is an official language are Ireland and Malta; in both of these countries English is only one of the official languages, not the only one.
- Semaphor 4y ago
  > the younger generation is hardly largely English-speaking I agree. While I don’t have any direct contact with younger people, our fantasy stores went from being 50/50 English/German products to having 99% in German.
  - yorwba 4y ago
    That indicates that there is no strong preference of English over German, but not that the people buying German products aren't largely English-speaking. If only 20% of German speakers don't speak English, then a store can expect a 25% boost in sales by offering a German version. And assuming German-English bilinguals are indifferent to the language, there's then little reason to offer the English product anymore. It's a winner-takes-all situation. (FWIW, first-time university students have consistently made up >50% of Germans in their respective age cohort for the past decade, so most ≈20–30 year-olds are in that university-educated English-speaking group.) https://www.destatis.de/DE/Themen/Gesellschaft-Umwelt/Bildung-Forschung-Kultur/Bildungsindikatoren/studienanfaengerquote-tabelle.html https://www.destatis.de/DE/Themen/Gesellschaft-Umwelt/Bildun...
    - Semaphor 4y ago
      Point taken. Though my experience in university (2005ish) was that most people could hold a conversation, but were often struggling with vocabulary and grammar. > And assuming German-English bilinguals are indifferent to the language Well, I stopped going to those stores because I prefer English, but I’m not exactly representative ;)
justeleblanc 4y ago
> I don't think that's the case, especially among the younger generations which are largely English speaking and grew up with the internet. Have you been to Europe outside of its big touristy capitals? To describe the younger generation as "largely English-speaking" is absurd. I'm from a medium-sized city in northern France. Go there and try speaking English to the young people in the street. See where that gets you.
- dkjaudyeqooe 4y ago
  OK, maybe I should have been a bit more specific. Most young people speak some English is what I meant, not that it was their primary language, which is obviously not the case. I'm here in coastal Croatia and English ability is common, if mixed, with younger people being mostly proficient. Of course the French are in a class of their own when it comes to (not) speaking English, but I'd still posit there are plenty of young French people who speak or understand English to some degree. If I needed help on your streets with only English I'm sure there would be someone who would be able to help me out.
- revelio 4y ago
  France is an exception. In most parts of Europe the young people speak excellent English or are even fluent. France takes a sort of cultural pride in the French language that other cultures don't.
  - justeleblanc 4y ago
    I've traveled a lot in Europe. People like to harp on France, but I've found that in most countries, outside big cities, English proficiency was not widespread.
    - revelio 4y ago
      Not been my experience but I guess it depends a lot on what you mean by proficiency. Also depends where you are and who you talk to. In the Nordics I never encountered a young person who wasn't nearly fluent in English. In bigger countries like Germany you can easily find people who don't speak English but they tend to themselves be immigrants and e.g. working in shops. Germans themselves learn it in school and do better.

ChuckNorris89 4y ago

>Germans are probably the most privacy conscious people in the western world Yeah, that's why every morning on the tram I see the average Germans texting on Tinder, WhatsApp, Snapchat, Telegram, and mindlessly scrolling through Instagram and TikTok, the most privacy focused apps on the planet. Sounds very privacy conscious, handing your most intimate data to US & Chinese companies. Also, A lot of German are really into digital banks and brokers lately like N26, Scalable Capital, etc. which report everything to the Government authorities anyway, so I'm not buying the whole privacy angle. Cash usage at small businesses is mostly to enable tax fraud.

AlecSchueler 4y ago
Their lack of privacy consciousness doesn't imply that they aren't the world's most privacy conscious people, in a world where almost no one seems to care at all about their privacy. Germany is well known for giving support to political endeavors which help to ensure the privacy of citizens. Try looking around Munich on Street View.
postdb 4y ago
May be true, but if you ever being to Berlin, and you want to go to a restaurant, you better bring cash. No body accepts cards or electronic payments there. It is a breath of fresh air for privacy focused people.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- justeleblanc 4y ago
  This has nothing to do with privacy and everything to do with tax fraud.
  - rs999gti 4y ago
    And credit card transaction fees

BjoernKW 4y ago

More often than not, "privacy" is merely used as an argument to avoid change and slow down progress, though. During the pandemic, for example, remote work tools were routinely criticised or even banned in Germany due to their supposed privacy implications - with schools and public administration often having been the worst offenders. There were civil servants who were "working from home", but in fact couldn't do any actual work because they were not allowed to access their department's intranet from home. There were even teachers who refused to use video conferencing solutions for teaching their classes. While some of that criticism regarding privacy issues with some of those tools might even have been valid, without suggesting a viable alternative, such criticism is pointless and detrimental, because all it achieves is to promote inertia and the status quo.