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I find watching RTS e-sports tournaments of games that I love much more entertaining than Netflix/Sports. The commentators just love what they are casting and y

I find watching RTS e-sports tournaments of games that I love much more entertaining than Netflix/Sports. The commentators just love what they are casting and you can sense it in their voice. You get to see real players doing so many things at the same time, constantly adapting. All the while the viewer sees everything and knows everything while the players only see a small subset. It makes it all so unpredictable and entertaining.

8f2ab37a-ed6c 4y ago
I miss the gomtv era of StarCraft 2 with tasteless and artosis, I still have fond memories of being glued to the screen.
- cwillu 4y ago
  Did you watch the ESL last month?
- Fuzzwah 4y ago
  I concur. I wonder if the fact that the game was also "less solved" back then made it more enjoyable to spectate too. Add in the balance patch changes that were still happening, broodwar players making the cross over, new players showing up, foreigners sort of having a few GSL showings... It really was excellent entertainment.
ajuc 4y ago
I think what makes RTS great to watch is the same thing that made soccer the most watched sport in the world. The game is free-flowing, it's not repetative, decision-making on the spot matters and comebacks aren't very rare. One bad fight in RTS might lose you the game. 2 minutes of bad defending might lose you a game you were 100% winning in soccer. Same in fighting sports (because of knock-out) and in chess (because of check-mate). Meanwhile in basketball, volleyball, baseball, MOBA, FPS - if you're winning by 20% your chances of comeback are very low. If you're winning by 50% it's over. TL; DR: games that are good to watch aren't linear.
- rcme 4y ago
  Have you watched a professional sport heavily? Comebacks are quite common in hockey, American football, and basketball. What you call repetition is likely your inability to appreciate the sportsmanship due to unfamiliarity. I watched a lot of SC2 when the game was first released, and I still watch VODs every now and then. The game is roughly as repetitive as any other sport. Sure, there are brilliant tactical plays, but each game has one of a few broad themes.
  - ajuc 4y ago
    I watch mostly soccer cause I think other teams sports are boring to watch in comparison. I admit I only have limited understanding of hockey and American football, but I know basketball pretty well, I played a lot of basketball in high-school, I even played a a city-level competition between about 30 high-schools. Average score in soccer is probably around 2-1. Crazy comeback is 0-3 to 4-3. 0-1 to 2-1 is just a normal game. 2-0 is called "the most dangerous lead" :) Average score in basketball is around 110-90? I just googled "basketball greatest comeback", and it said "Only eight times in NBA history has a team rallied from a 30-plus point deficit to win a game." I rest my case regarding comebacks. In general I think of games as a spectrum creative/fluid games vs structured/efficiency games. At 0% there's volleyball. Scoring chances are given for free every X seconds. All the foreplay is 2 passes, each time you have only 5 possible players to pass to, you don't move much. All creativity in volleyball does is - it might make the other team set up a block in the wrong place/at the wrong height, which means you increase your chance of scoring. At 30% there's basketball - you have up to 30 seconds for foreplay, you have 4 players to pass to, they can move, but basically anything works - offense has a huge advantage over defense so if you're on the same level as the opponent - you will get a chance to score every almost time it's "your round". It's all about efficiency near the bin - creativity only gives you a slightly better scoring position and slightly more scoring chances. In soccer there's no concept of "rounds" because you will lose possession 100 times anyway, no matter who starts the game. You can score 5 goals in 9 minutes or you can never get a scoring chance. You have to be creative and do something special to even get into a scoring position. Foreplay lasts for about 5 minutes on average between each shot, and you have to make many decisions at each step - you have 10 possible targets for your passes, and a field that's far too big for 22 players. So players without the ball have to make meaningful decisions constantly, too. Starcraft is very close to 100% on that spectrum, because there's very little structure, and creativity is required, even if you follow a build-order. You can do a 6-pool. You can drop and harras someone to death only to lose because somebody had a ninja-base the whole time. You can turtle and build a death-ball. You can recover after a failed all-in and do a surprising (or not) tech-switch. You can lose at minut 1 and at minute 30. The win conditions change.

8f2ab37a-ed6c 4y ago

I miss the gomtv era of StarCraft 2 with tasteless and artosis, I still have fond memories of being glued to the screen.

cwillu 4y ago
Did you watch the ESL last month?
Fuzzwah 4y ago
I concur. I wonder if the fact that the game was also "less solved" back then made it more enjoyable to spectate too. Add in the balance patch changes that were still happening, broodwar players making the cross over, new players showing up, foreigners sort of having a few GSL showings... It really was excellent entertainment.

ajuc 4y ago

I think what makes RTS great to watch is the same thing that made soccer the most watched sport in the world. The game is free-flowing, it's not repetative, decision-making on the spot matters and comebacks aren't very rare. One bad fight in RTS might lose you the game. 2 minutes of bad defending might lose you a game you were 100% winning in soccer. Same in fighting sports (because of knock-out) and in chess (because of check-mate). Meanwhile in basketball, volleyball, baseball, MOBA, FPS - if you're winning by 20% your chances of comeback are very low. If you're winning by 50% it's over. TL; DR: games that are good to watch aren't linear.

rcme 4y ago
Have you watched a professional sport heavily? Comebacks are quite common in hockey, American football, and basketball. What you call repetition is likely your inability to appreciate the sportsmanship due to unfamiliarity. I watched a lot of SC2 when the game was first released, and I still watch VODs every now and then. The game is roughly as repetitive as any other sport. Sure, there are brilliant tactical plays, but each game has one of a few broad themes.
- ajuc 4y ago
  I watch mostly soccer cause I think other teams sports are boring to watch in comparison. I admit I only have limited understanding of hockey and American football, but I know basketball pretty well, I played a lot of basketball in high-school, I even played a a city-level competition between about 30 high-schools. Average score in soccer is probably around 2-1. Crazy comeback is 0-3 to 4-3. 0-1 to 2-1 is just a normal game. 2-0 is called "the most dangerous lead" :) Average score in basketball is around 110-90? I just googled "basketball greatest comeback", and it said "Only eight times in NBA history has a team rallied from a 30-plus point deficit to win a game." I rest my case regarding comebacks. In general I think of games as a spectrum creative/fluid games vs structured/efficiency games. At 0% there's volleyball. Scoring chances are given for free every X seconds. All the foreplay is 2 passes, each time you have only 5 possible players to pass to, you don't move much. All creativity in volleyball does is - it might make the other team set up a block in the wrong place/at the wrong height, which means you increase your chance of scoring. At 30% there's basketball - you have up to 30 seconds for foreplay, you have 4 players to pass to, they can move, but basically anything works - offense has a huge advantage over defense so if you're on the same level as the opponent - you will get a chance to score every almost time it's "your round". It's all about efficiency near the bin - creativity only gives you a slightly better scoring position and slightly more scoring chances. In soccer there's no concept of "rounds" because you will lose possession 100 times anyway, no matter who starts the game. You can score 5 goals in 9 minutes or you can never get a scoring chance. You have to be creative and do something special to even get into a scoring position. Foreplay lasts for about 5 minutes on average between each shot, and you have to make many decisions at each step - you have 10 possible targets for your passes, and a field that's far too big for 22 players. So players without the ball have to make meaningful decisions constantly, too. Starcraft is very close to 100% on that spectrum, because there's very little structure, and creativity is required, even if you follow a build-order. You can do a 6-pool. You can drop and harras someone to death only to lose because somebody had a ninja-base the whole time. You can turtle and build a death-ball. You can recover after a failed all-in and do a surprising (or not) tech-switch. You can lose at minut 1 and at minute 30. The win conditions change.