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> The thinking is that if CCP pushes something real hard by investing large amounts of resources in it, the chances are higher that they will succeed. Not tomor

> The thinking is that if CCP pushes something real hard by investing large amounts of resources in it, the chances are higher that they will succeed. Not tomorrow but in 10 or 20 years. China’s ASML is Years and Years Behind: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DtOyW-JpJjM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DtOyW-JpJjM tl;dw - Nope. Can't just throw money at this problem.

sitkack 4y ago
28nm can cover the vast majority of chip production needs for the next 5-10 years. Most things don't need an advanced node. By the time SMEE is hitting 5nm, processes for 3d will be mature. I wouldn't discount any of this at this point.
- DeathArrow 4y ago
  28nm is good for everything besides mobile, desktop and server which is a huge market. I guess China will crack EUV in some time.
- mnau 4y ago
  SMEE won't be making EUV, it has it's hands full of DUV. Chinese Academy of Sciences will (a spinoff company for commercialization), they publish research papers on EUV and so on. Multiple project are being developed in parallel.
  - DeathArrow 4y ago
    Yes, I know. I didn't say SMEE will create EUV, I said China will. I don't think differentiation between various industrial arms of CCP is of importance. Right now they've made bets on a large scale of different technologies. Many of them failed already. Probably they will focus on a few and succeed in a not very long time scale.
    - sitkack 4y ago
      I agree, it is hubris and possibly racism that continues to discount Chinese grit and intelligence.
      - HopenHeyHi 4y ago
        Just FYI the person giving the talk in my YouTube link is Chinese. Nor is the grit and intelligence of the knowledge workers that is being questioned.
        sitkack 4y ago
        To be clear, I wasn't accusing you of this, in general there is a broad sentiment going back all the way to the 80s that espoused a racist view that Asia could copy and produce but could not create. In middle school we were sold the vision that we would design products because of our superior creativity and intellect and people in Asia would make our products.
- eunos 4y ago
  28nm with multi patterning can go to lower process node. SMIC has experience up to 7nm for that. I think early TSMC 7nm used DUV.
DeathArrow 4y ago
If a Chinese company isn't directly under US sanctions like Huawei is they can still use TSMC to fab chips.

sitkack 4y ago

28nm can cover the vast majority of chip production needs for the next 5-10 years. Most things don't need an advanced node. By the time SMEE is hitting 5nm, processes for 3d will be mature. I wouldn't discount any of this at this point.

DeathArrow 4y ago
28nm is good for everything besides mobile, desktop and server which is a huge market. I guess China will crack EUV in some time.
mnau 4y ago
SMEE won't be making EUV, it has it's hands full of DUV. Chinese Academy of Sciences will (a spinoff company for commercialization), they publish research papers on EUV and so on. Multiple project are being developed in parallel.
- DeathArrow 4y ago
  Yes, I know. I didn't say SMEE will create EUV, I said China will. I don't think differentiation between various industrial arms of CCP is of importance. Right now they've made bets on a large scale of different technologies. Many of them failed already. Probably they will focus on a few and succeed in a not very long time scale.
  - sitkack 4y ago
    I agree, it is hubris and possibly racism that continues to discount Chinese grit and intelligence.
    - HopenHeyHi 4y ago
      Just FYI the person giving the talk in my YouTube link is Chinese. Nor is the grit and intelligence of the knowledge workers that is being questioned.
      - sitkack 4y ago
        To be clear, I wasn't accusing you of this, in general there is a broad sentiment going back all the way to the 80s that espoused a racist view that Asia could copy and produce but could not create. In middle school we were sold the vision that we would design products because of our superior creativity and intellect and people in Asia would make our products.
eunos 4y ago
28nm with multi patterning can go to lower process node. SMIC has experience up to 7nm for that. I think early TSMC 7nm used DUV.

DeathArrow 4y ago

If a Chinese company isn't directly under US sanctions like Huawei is they can still use TSMC to fab chips.