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Just for the sake of argument: How do you believe the Ukranian military will conquer/liberate [1] those areas under Russian control? My impression is that by n
by fxtentacle 4y ago
Just for the sake of argument: How do you believe the Ukranian military will conquer/liberate [1] those areas under Russian control?
My impression is that by now, both sides have heavily bombed some areas.
[1] That word depends on which newspaper you read.
- medo-bear 4y agoi keep reading reports that russians have run out of ammo and their soldiers are fighting with shovels now [1] so it must be the ukranians [1] https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-64855760 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-64855760
- K5EiS 4y ago> "armed with only 'firearms and shovels'" You left out the firearms part
- polotics 4y agoA shovel is the most essential tool of infantry, if you can't dig your trench quickly, you are a dead man much faster...
- khochesh_kushat 4y agoIs affixing shovels and charging enemy positions very common historically?
- throwaway742 4y agoYes it was quite common. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EIGIBJeRfnQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EIGIBJeRfnQ
- EGreg 4y agoTruth is the first casualty of war. These stories have been going on since April of last year. https://www.newsweek.com/russian-army-days-away-running-out-resources-military-experts-say-1688025 https://www.newsweek.com/russian-army-days-away-running-out-... Each side is basically creating an echo chamber for their citizens to believe, so they will keep supporting an ongoing war until “the other side” is “100% defeated” so it “can’t attack us again”. I have seen this rhetoric in every proxy war, including Yemen since 2014 and Syria even before that. Sadly the same thing repeats in every conflict but most people don’t know that.
- peppermint_gum 4y agoRunning out of resources doesn't mean they will suddenly stop shooting. It isn't binary. It means the intensity of artillery and missile strikes is decreasing. It means they have to import arms from Iran. It means they are now using ancient T-62s and recently started pulling T-55s out of storage.
- midasuni 4y agoThat’s a strange way to spell liberate.
- fxtentacle 4y agoFixed :)
- gostsamo 4y agoWell, if it was your country being invaded and the others have occupied your cities, how would you proceed? Tell them that it is okay and you will let it go?
- concordDance 4y agoIf the cities are bombed out husks with no one in them, who has been liberated? The fact is that artillary war really sucks and you end up with a lot of ruined cities if you have one.
- Aeolun 4y agoAbsolutely, but if you have one regardless, it’s much better to finish it properly the first time around, so you don’t have to do the same thing twice.
- EGreg 4y agoAleppo and Homs come to mind Have they been successfully liberated from the scourge of Al Nusra front and the moderate rebels of the Free Syrian Army?
- ohgodplsno 4y agoThe fact is, the country responsible for razing entire cities to the ground is not Ukraine. Russian incompetence tore down Mariupol, not ukrainian resistance.
- midasuni 4y agoIf Mexico occupied half of the arizona desert and the US counterattacked a few months later and retook it, would you describe the US as “conquering”?
- crispyporkbites 4y agoIf you talk to a Ukrainian, they will tell you that the war will end when they win the war. I.E. they won’t stop fighting until the Russians are gone. So if the regions remain under Russian control, the fighting will continue. Given Russia couldn’t conquer Ukraine first time round, it seems unlikely that they will be able to support a sustained campaign against a country that isn’t going to give up, until it’s over. Most likely outcome is that Russia attempts to hold the invaded territory for a period of years and eventually leaves when it becomes untenable for Russian leadership
- potatototoo99 4y agoThe war will also continue until the Russians win, since they have already formally annexed a few regions, and the Crimea is strategically and historically important. So if I had to guess, the war ends when the US president changes and they no longer want to support the ongoing conflict, and a demilitarized border is created between Ukraine and the lost regions.
- polotics 4y agoAny end of the war that shows aggression pays off dividends means the start of many other aggressions elsewhere, a new world order of might-makes-right that can only stabilise again once everyone is armed with nukes.
- potatototoo99 4y agoI don't think any outcome at this time would be a success for Russia, but feeding the meatgrinder until the world runs out of Ukranians just to send a message about aggression seems stupid. Of course might-makes-right, the current world order was built on that - the military superiority of the US after WW2. Since then the champion of that new world order didn't shy away from invading other countries.
- akimball 4y agoCorrelation is not causation. Perhaps right makes might. Or perhaps both are caused by another factor entirely, such as brane interactions.
- fauxpause_ 4y agoCompare Kherson (liberated after being conquered by Russia without a siege due to a corrupt traitor) to Mariupol or Bakhmut (under Russian assault for a long time). Russian assaults are just hundreds of dumb artillery guns firing non stop to try and reduce the other side to rubble. And of course cruise missiles launched at civilian targets. You’ll find countless examples of areas that are just leveled. Ukraine doesn’t do that. They have precise weapons that they do fire into occupied areas. They certainly aren’t randomly firing shells into their own cities for the lols.
- ImHereToVote 4y agoOne army is mostly exercising maneuver warfare. The other one is mostly digging-in inside apartments. Yes there are examples of both sides doing both. The truth isn't a nice collection of anecdotes though.
- fauxpause_ 4y agoThe truth is overwhelmingly one sided. It’s not close, at all. Ukraine is not a flawless actor but that isn’t an excuse to completely disregard the magnitude of offenses.
- midasuni 4y agoOther non-flawless actors — US in the liberation of France and occupation of Germany. But many, especially it seems on the American right, like to “both sides” no matter how clear cut.
- hdjjhhvvhga 4y agoThere is no good alternative here at all. Either they let Moscovians do what they want on their soil, including rapes, brutal murders and so on, or try to get these areas back. Both are extremely tough moral choices for every normal person. But frankly, looking long-term at the fate of people living under the Moscovian regime and those not dependent on it, it's probably better if they liberate these areas.