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The Undeniable Street View
- EGreg 4y agoHow many streets are in here? It seems that the street view is limited to a few blocks in each case. When were the photos added? How can people add stuff from Mariupol, for instance? This kind of stuff is absolutely needed, but regularly uploaded by people on the ground, and showing the up-to-date situation. One should be able to see any conflict zone, including Sanaa Yemen this way. Because otherwise we just get videos like this, rather than visualizations of the actual damage and the more recent updates: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EoZsjagnKPs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EoZsjagnKPs
- paganel 4y ago> from Mariupol, for instance? After they finish building all the new apartment blocks [1]. And Bakhmut currently looks way worse than Mariupol ever did, but I guess the West's attention has mostly shifted elsewhere. [1] https://twitter.com/MKlarname/status/1635543087509323777 https://twitter.com/MKlarname/status/1635543087509323777
- AcornGrower 4y agoThe Twitter account you used as source is a far-right, pro-Russian troll. Not very trustworthy.
- EGreg 4y agoWhere can we get Mariupol footage of whats happening now?
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- paganel 4y agoDon’t think the Kiev Independent guys have access to Mariupol right now, I just copy-pasted from Twitter one of the first results of “Mariupol new apartments” search. You’re right, most probably those reporting from inside Russian-controlled Mariupol are pro-Russian.
- MayeulC 4y agoRussia's goal with Mariupol seems to be razing the damaged parts of the city to cover up the destruction and their war crimes (see the mariupol theater), and rebuild new buildings on top, to proclaim that it's now a much better city under russian leadership. Of course, ukraine would probably have razed or reconstructed these buildings, but the russian way seems to be explicitly done as a cover-up and propaganda operation. I really doubt they can afford that level of public spending in other cities, and I wouldn't be surprised to learn that these construction projects only cover a small portion of the destroyed buildings. To say nothing about the quality of the hastily constructed flats.
- _nalply 4y agoI wonder if Russia is letting Russians taking up residence in the new houses and what the consequences would be later.
- ImHereToVote 4y agoDepends what you mean by Russian? If you mean someone who's first language is Russian, then not much will change.
- K5EiS 4y agoFinished but with a lot of problems https://twitter.com/wartranslated/status/1615462194023473152 https://twitter.com/wartranslated/status/1615462194023473152
- jgilias 4y agoWhat do you think would happen to people going around and taking pictures of the damage in Mariupol while it’s under occupation?
- EGreg 4y agoNothing? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wmkfQtlr67k https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wmkfQtlr67k Life is returning back to normal after a horrific battle that did not need to happen. Most civilians don’t care so much under which government they live, they just want health and safety first and foremost. Governments and states create the problems, in my opinion. Politicians should serve the people, not create war. In an ideal world, the states would be replaced with agencies that compete for yearly contracts from neighborhoods. Instead of killing civilians for a flag, the civilians would renew contracts for roads, police etc. from competing agencies and none of it would be bundled together in “a state”.
- jgilias 4y agoI didn’t want to spell it out, but apparently I must. They’d end up in torture chambers like in Kherson: https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/torture-chambers-ukraines-kherson-financed-by-russian-state-investigators-2023-03-02/ https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/torture-chambers-ukrain...
- 93po 4y agoI'm glad corporate news is now properly classifying waterboarding as torture.
- throwaway742 4y agohttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GPZ7uRwwcE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GPZ7uRwwcE
- relaxmusic 4y ago[flagged]
- irl_chad 4y agoStreet 14, Kharkiv. I remember battles in that area. I remember when some of the houses there got hit. One night specifically, I was on a base a ways away, and I heard one of the loudest explosions I’d heard during the war. The curtains in our room even lifted, halfway to the ceiling.
- _nalply 4y agoWere the windows broken?
- irl_chad 4y agoNo. It was warm, so we had the windows open though.
- H8crilA 4y agoI heard from the people close to the frontline (medics, soldiers) that you're supposed to tightly tape all the glass in the windows so that a nearby explosion cannot blast you with glass fragments.
- irl_chad 4y agoYes, this works. Actually while planning one SSE operation, we heavily debated the best way to break glass windows. One guy on the team wanted to tape around the edges, attach a suction cup to the center, and break the window with a spark plug. While that would work, and be the quieter option, I decided it would be too slow and too complicated. I was expecting to break a lot of windows, and we only had 2 hours for SSE. So in the end, I decided to just smash the window with a crowbar, and run the crowbar violently along the edges to clear out any big broken glass still not detached from the window frame. Then make entry.
- gruez 4y ago>One guy on the team wanted to tape around the edges, attach a suction cup to the center, and break the window with a spark plug What does the suction cup do? The way you described it only the edges were taped, so as soon as the glass pane breaks, the center will shatter and the suction cup will lose suction.
- bobse 4y ago[flagged]
- wwilim 4y agoI think it's worth dropping your oldschool web elitist schtick for this one
- bigDinosaur 4y agoEvery single comment I cared to look at from the person to whom you are replying is extremely negative, and probably a troll.
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- cabirum 4y agoAre the cities of Donetsk and Luhansk mapped as well?
- guidedlight 4y agoI'd love to see Bakhmut. That city has been under constant siege for the last 6 months.
- thesmok 4y agoI've got a source for you: this Ukrainian is serving in Bakhmut right now. He's a "YouTube guy" in his unit, consistently uploading good quality footage. Skip the talking part and watch https://www.youtube.com/@MotoLifeUA/videos https://www.youtube.com/@MotoLifeUA/videos
- K5EiS 4y agoJust go on Google maps, those cities are virtually untouched.
- H8crilA 4y agoSee my other comment for footage from Marinka. Marinka is an eastern suburb of Donetsk City. Avdiivka, Soledar, Bakhmut, Vuhledar, ... all the famous names of the current phase of the war look about the same, since they received about the same level of artillery pressure (kilotons, but of conventional explosives).
- bspammer 4y agoI think it might be effective to have a toggle for before/after the war, if there is street view data from before the war.
- cocoto 4y agoThere is a before/after toggle for the second street. Pretty dishonest to compare summer photos with green trees with winter photos and trees without leaves, they should fix it.
- iam-TJ 4y agoUnfortunately there is no (easily discoverable) link to report site faults. Hopefully site admininstorss read this thread eventually. The 'streetview' canvas doesn't render correctly on Firefox 111.0.1 Linux amd64; instead it shows coloured vertical stripes that slowly 'scroll' from right to left.
- sha-3 4y agoDo you have WebGL enabled?
- will_bl 4y agoHappens when you limit a site's canvas access to prevent fingerprinting, I believe.
- iam-TJ 4y agoThank-you! Since the expected permission request pop-up didn't show first time I visited the site, and the address-bar didn't highlight any blocking, and the settings dialog doesn't make it clear whether or not canvas is currently blocked (it has a question and two buttons, neither highlighted) I misinterpreted the default setting.
- jiggawatts 4y agoI have otherwise intelligent friends who have unfortunately become immersed in Russian propaganda. With a straight face they will say that everything we see out of Ukraine is a lie. That it is Ukraine bombing their own cities just to make Russia look bad. It's absolutely fantastic to me how people can just suspend reality and start believing the most absurd notions.
- brvsft 4y ago> That it is Ukraine bombing their own cities just to make Russia look bad. So you know how I feel about people suggesting that Russia bombed the Nord Stream pipeline.
- hdjjhhvvhga 4y agoWho cares about the Nord Stream these days? It was completely discredited even before it was blown up, just like Schroeder. Nobody wants it, not even the people who pushed for it inside Germany, not to mention other countries.
- brvsft 4y agoSo first I was told that Russia blew it up to cut off natural gas supplies so that some European nations would have a very cold and bad winter. Now it's discredited even before it was blown up. Okay.
- msm_ 4y agoI think NordStream is a great example. It was a big deal. I'm actually surprised that you're the only one that mentioned it. Everyone (I know and discussed with) agrees that Ukrainians obviously didn't bomb their cities, but everyone (including me) would also prefer to blame Russia for exploding NordStream, even if that doesn't make sense (unless it was a huge false flag). It's a tough pill to swallow, but (at least in my circles) most people did it and after the initial shock entertain the possibility that it was actually done by the US/EU. Just to be clear: it doesn't really change my perspective on the war or anything else - whoever did this was putting pressure on Russia and I support it. This move made "peace supporters" sponsored by Russia toothless, and cemented European support for Ukraine.
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- execveat 4y agoI love the project, but the whole premise is broken. People brainwashed into supporting Russia do not deny the scale of devastation and human tragedy. They just attribute it to the Ukrainian military. So, while documenting the terror is a commendable thing to do, it will not change anyone's mind. Zombies will simply take it as evidence that their propaganda was right all along. "See for yourself how ruthless these Ukrainians neonazies are, killing their own people just to spite the big Russian brother."
- concordDance 4y ago> They just attribute it to the Ukrainian military Not always, often they just say its an unfortunate consequence of the war. I also think the use of "brainwashing" here is inappropriate. The issue here is divergent sources and selective sampling mostly, not some systematic rewriting of how they process evidence. Give anyone access to just the information your average Russian is fed and they'll reach a similar conclusion.
- 93po 4y agoI wish everyone was as rational as you. I see people constantly celebrating the death of Russian soldiers and it grosses me out. They're dumb 19 year olds who believe dumb, wrong shit for the same reason most Americans believe dumb, wrong shit. American interventions overseas since 2001 have killed hundreds of thousands of civilians, including women and children, yet many Americans don't seem to ever think of our troops as problematic. The headline on CNN right now is "Putin is scaring the world to distract from his problems". If anyone reads that and doesn't immediately recognize it as propaganda (or at best, not real journalism) then they're doing as poorly as the Russians who are pro-war.
- oneshtein 4y agoThe more killers are killed, the earlier they are killed, the fewer innocent victims there are. Why we should not celebrate saved lives?
- H8crilA 4y agoAll in all the northern part of the country got relatively little damage. The front line in the Donbass looks like this, pretty much nuked down to basements: https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/comments/10ee9at/destroyed_marinka_2023_january_15 https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/comments/10ee9at/destroyed_... Areas like Marinka have received kilotons of conventional artillery. Z-channels on Telegram call this process "city-cide" (gradocyd, something like that). I've been to Ukraine recently and what's really heartwarming is the amount of reconstruction going on in the Kyiv Oblast. Many of the bridges north of the city are almost rebuilt. They were blown up to slow down the Russian armored assault.
- spaceheater 4y ago[flagged]
- Fatnino 4y agoI think you mean the 10 trillion rubles of weapons pumped into Ukraine. (that's more than $100 billion, for you who are counting on your fingers) https://jamestown.org/program/russias-skyrocketing-costs-for-war-effort/ https://jamestown.org/program/russias-skyrocketing-costs-for...
- okasaki 4y agoCan you please put what the story is about in the title so those of us who don't care or don't want to read it can avoid it?
- nine_k 4y agoI.don't know why some people may think they should not care, but I'd say it's somehow dangerous not to. This war is already pretty consequential, and will become even more so, even for people far away.
- M4v3R 4y agoIf you don’t care you can simply close the page. HN rules don’t allow editorializing the titles of the stories, OP just put the page title there like we do for every single story on this site.
- yodsanklai 4y agoWhat is Putin asking exactly, is there anything the West/Ukraine could do (or could have done) for negotiating an end to the war? Some western leaders such as Macron have met with Putin in the early stage of the conflict, it wasn't clear to me what exactly they were trying to negotiate.
- LastTrain 4y agoHe wants part of Ukraine and he wants the part he didn’t take to agree to never join NATO. Neither of those things are negotiable so here we are.
- khochesh_kushat 4y agoThat there is no such thing as Ukrainian people, only Russians, and Ukraine must be a subject of Russia and Ukrainian identity should be made illegal. Not sure where you'd start negotiating something like that if you were Ukrainian, though.
- secondary_op 4y agoEveryone should look around for 'undeniable' signs of war profiteering. We need more diplomacy to move towards peace and prevent the exploitation of conflicts for financial gains. Instead what we see is sites like this where only thing that they do is demonise one side while showcasing horrors of war. While other hand of humble sponsors throw even more military to make more destruction. Julian Assange speaking in 2011: "The goal is to use Afghanistan to wash money out of the tax bases of the US and Europe through Afghanistan and back into the hands of a transnational security elite. The goal is an endless war, not a successful war" https://twitter.com/Snowden/status/1581698912447975424 https://twitter.com/Snowden/status/1581698912447975424 Nova Ukraine is a 501(c)3 registered non-profit organization (EIN 465335435) dedicated to raising awareness about Ukraine in the US and throughout the world and providing humanitarian aid to Ukraine. Here is the thing about NGO's In India, for instance, the funded NGO boom began in the late 1980s and 1990s. It coincided with the opening of India's markets to neoliberalism. At the time, the Indian state, in keeping with the requirements of structural adjustment, was withdrawing funding from rural development, agriculture, energy transport, and public health. As the state abdicated its traditional role, NGOs moved in to work in these very areas. The difference, of course, is that the funds available to them are a minuscule fraction of the actual cut in public spending. Most large funded NGOs are financed and patronized by aid and develop agencies, which in turn are funded by Western governments, the World Bank, the UN, and some multinational corporations. Though they may not be the very same agencies, they are certainly part of the same loose political formation that oversees the neoliberal project and demands the slash in government spending in the first place. Why should these agencies fund NGOs? Could it be just old-fashioned missionary zeal, guilt? It's a little more than that. NGOs give the impression that they are filling the vacuum created by a retreating state. And they are, but in a materially inconsequential way. Their real contribution is that they diffuse political anger and dole out as aid or benevolence what people ought to have by right. They alter the public psyche. They turn people into dependent victims and blunt the edges of political resistance. NGOs form a sort of buffer between the government and the public, between empire and its subjects. They have become arbitrators, the interpreters, the facilitators. In the long run, NGOs are accountable to their funders, not to the people they work among. They're what botanists would call an indicator species. It's almost as though the greater the devastation caused by neoliberalism, the greater the outbreak of NGOs. Nothing illustrates this more poignantly than the phenomenon of the US preparing to invade a country and simultaneously readying NGOs to go in and clean up the devastation. In order to make sure their funding is not jeopardized and that the governments of the countries they work in will allow them to function, NGOs have to present their work in a shallow framework, more or less shorn of a political or historical context. – Arundhati Roy, the Indian writer, about the NGO influence in India. Same thing is happening in Georgia[1], Lybia[2] [1] Radio War Nerd EP 369 — Georgia Protests & NGO Colonialism, feat. Sopo Japaridze [2] 12 Years Since NATO Bombed Libya, Gaddafi’s Ex-Spox. Gives Exclusive Update on Saif Al-Islam Going Underground https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-_zFFPMgCeM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-_zFFPMgCeM
- Tade0 4y agoThis war will go down in history as the first to be so data-heavy. If not for the real people that I met who fled to safety, this would feel almost like some kind of bizarre and cruel sporting event.
- 93po 4y agoThere is a ton of data around American interventions overseas over the past 20 years, the problem is western media doesn't show any of it and so it's invisible for most Americans. Americans did the same thing to multiple countries that we're seeing in the streetviews in OP
- JPws_Prntr_Fngr 4y agoYup. Where do I, an American, go for information on oh I dunno, say the destruction of Yemen and Libya? Al Jazeera? RT? Even if I found interesting data/analysis, who could I show it to here in the US? Half the country thinks AJ is news for terrorists, and the other half thinks RT is news for nazis.
- 93po 4y agoRT is useful resource for discovering concepts that don't follow the western narrative, but absolutely not in terms of having any sort of reliable coverage of facts around these concepts. Or that the concepts themselves have any legitimacy. AJ is probably the best English speaking mainstream resource for this. I don't really know what to say about the societal problem of people not caring.
- eruci 4y agoI suspect the intensifying divisions in our society are also a result of Russian/Chinese psyops. The "post-truth" era is just a prelude to a greater war the west will eventually have to fight against them.
- ImHereToVote 4y agoWe must give more powers to the FBI to remove misinformation. Not only on Twitter, but in schools, grocery stores, and kindergartens. Just hammer the truth through their thick skulls 24/7.
- eruci 4y agoNo. What made you reach that course of action recommendation based on a suspicion? Combating misinformation is an important issue, any efforts to do so must be balanced with considerations of free speech, government power, and practicality. It may be more effective to focus on promoting accurate information and critical thinking rather than trying to force people to accept the "truth."
- JPws_Prntr_Fngr 4y ago"Where we're going, we won't need Poe's Law"
- k_bx 4y agoOr, viewed differently, additional help to Ukraine now will prevent some of those later problems too.
- cryptoegorophy 4y agoSadly I stopped paying attention to that conflict when I learned there is an elephant in the room that no one seems to notice - huge oil and gas pipes going from Russia to Europe through Ukraine which at the beginning and during the war gave Russia $1 billion USD PER DAY making it Ukraine/Europe the biggest sponsor of terrorism.
- msm_ 4y ago> Sadly I stopped paying attention to that conflict when I learned there is an elephant in the room that no one seems to notice Are you American by any chance? Believe me, this elephant is noticed, was talked about daily by every European country almost every day of the past year, and is being acted upon all the time. What do you imagine the alternative is?
- Garvi 4y ago[flagged]
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- Garvi 4y ago"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." :(
- mari1 4y agoWar is undoubtedly one of the most catastrophic events that can occur in any society. It brings about unimaginable destruction and devastation, leaving behind irreparable damage to both human life and infrastructure. Innocent civilians, including women and children, often become the primary victims of war, leading to severe physical and emotional trauma. In addition to the loss of life, war can also lead to the displacement of millions of people, causing untold suffering and hardship. Furthermore, the economic consequences of war can be severe, as countries are forced to divert their resources towards military spending, leaving essential needs such as healthcare and education underfunded. Finally, the impact of war extends far beyond the battlefield, as it can leave deep scars on a society's psyche, leading to long-term social and psychological trauma. In short, war is an utterly destructive force that brings nothing but pain, suffering, and despair to those affected by it.
- onos 4y agoIncessant war is considered to be one of the drivers of the industrial revolution, which you could argue was a good thing.
- regentbowerbird 4y ago> Incessant war is considered to be one of the drivers of the industrial revolution How so? By whom?
- onos 4y agoEconomic historians. The duress of war between France and Britain required them to become more efficient. In particular the debt defaults by the British crown meant they couldn’t raise more money without ceding more and more property rights to individuals. This allowed for the incentive for people to develop capital.
- sunshinesnacks 4y agoThis reads a bit like a short essay answer on a test, or a ChatGPT response...
- nojvek 4y agoIt really does seem like a one sided war. Russia is slowly destroying Ukraine but no real effect to Russia. They're slowly ramping up their production of weapons. Russia can do this for another 10 years until Ukraine's economy is slowly suffocated. IMO to end the war, Russia needs a hard lesson that it can't keep on bombing another soviergn nation and expect rest of world to be chill. Unfortunately because they have nuclear weapons, Putin knows he can get away with almost anything.
- akimball 4y agoRussia is a gas station that can't sell gas. It is being bankrupted. They can't make stuff without German engineers repairing their German machinery. Russia might not last the year. Look at their own ministry of finance budget numbers.
- sneak 4y ago> but no real effect to Russia. Russia is sending guys into nightclubs on weekend nights in Moscow and St Pete to snatch able-bodied men off of dance floors and forcibly toss them into the busses to replenish their slave armies. I don't know how long that is a viable strategy. Then again, I don't know how long Ukraine's defense is viable.
- aqibgatoo 4y ago[dead]
- Vixel 4y agoIncredible use of technology
- zac23or 4y agoIncredible project under dire circumstances. But is not Undeniable. I spent some time talking to groups of denialists. Conversations are something like: - Hello, your creed is not real, because [some facts]. - These facts are not true, it's fake created by [nasa, globalists, etc] - It's not fake, because [some facts about facts] - You get paid by a [globalists, nasa, etc] In some cases, some of my "imagined characteristics" are used to accuse me of something. My profile does not have this information, the person takes it out of nowhere. - You are defending [male, gay, female] because you are [gay, male, female, cis, etc] At the end of the day, the facts don't matter, it's important to stand up for something: -Your data is wrong, it's not 53% of x or y, it's 0.3%. - 0.3% is important anyway, it is not changed. In the case, 0.3% is irrelevant. Goals change. - See, some facts: - And, about [something else, not related to the lecture] Basically, I see three types of denialists: - The lonely person looking for some community. The community replaces other traditional groups like the church. These people will defend the creed, often without understanding it. It seems to be 80% of all denialists. - Rich people with some Christian/capitalist guilt. - People with a real mental problem - People who know the truth but earn some money from the creed. These people keep denial alive by creating factoids when they can. I don't talk to these people anymore. I don't know how to help them and in the end it can be very stressful and sad.