8 ms·

Public health care can be similarly dystopian in other ways: Very long wait times due to limited resources, subpar medical care, limited prescription options an

by xwdv 4y ago

Public health care can be similarly dystopian in other ways: Very long wait times due to limited resources, subpar medical care, limited prescription options and drugs, beauracracy. No matter what society you live, the advice is the same: try not to get sick.

PicassoCTs 4y ago
Ah, yes, have a privatized public sector, use the gained funds to lobby in other countries, pushing a ideology that destroys public sector/services, use the result of ones own actions to push the conversion to more privatized public sector. The ultimate glider gun ideology.
weaksauce 4y ago
> Very long wait times due to limited resources, subpar medical care, limited prescription options and drugs, beauracracy. those are all there because the people that created the system did not think paying for it was good enough. it doesn't have to be that way. and even with wait times being long you still eventually get it. in the privatized system if you are poor and have bad health care you don't get it at all.
harshalizee 4y ago
I moved from a third world country with both socialized and private healthcare, to the United States. I pay vastly more for worse healthcare than anywhere I've lived. The fact that you, your doctor can agree that a certain procedure is required, only to be denied by a third party with no medical qualification is absolutely dystopian.
- ipaddr 4y ago
  Now you are talking about insurance which is the heart of the problem
- Mizoguchi 4y ago
  I also came to the US from a country with a good hybrid public/private system and my experience in the US had been different. So I guess it depends on where (city/state) you live and also what type of insurance you have. Where I live I have access to a SOTA network of hospitals with great technology and some practices amount the best in the world (people come here from other states and even countries for treatment) and I use their own insurance, so it's been great so far, never dealt with any issues having medical care rejected. I pay $350/month (self employed) and I have a very reasonable deductible, $60 copay to see specialists and many preventive procedures such as cancer and heart disease screenings (which I use), blood work and some PT sessions completely free. I even get discounts on fitness centers and health tracking apps which helps offset part of the premium. My shoulder was actually spared from a very invasive surgery thanks to a doctor top of his field (he sees olympic teams) who was able to treat me with only PT. I don't think I paid more than $1000 out of pocket for everything including several MRIs and multiple visits to his practice, plus several sessions of PT and medications. It could have been free back in my country, I guess, but I could have also been screwed for life due to an unnecessary surgery.
- wahnfrieden 4y ago
  Sounds like death panels made up of unqualified bureaucrats
  - Scoundreller 4y ago
    Both public and private systems have "death panels". Though cited article suggests even death panels run by doctors are no guarantee of effectiveness.
    - wahnfrieden 4y ago
      The article is not about death panels run by doctors, they are run by insurance companies. The doctors in this scenario are workers given bounded instructions on how to operate by the ones running it, without autonomy on how to organize the death panel decisionmaking. It's in the title - the "having" shows who is in control. These are not worker owned cooperatives. Nor are most state owned death panels.
      - Scoundreller 4y ago
        > doctors > without autonomy This is an incredibly poor way to act given that doctors usually have unlimited personal liability, even if they are employees
- alphanullmeric 4y ago
  Sounds like you should have stayed then.
  - drowsspa 4y ago
    Is American healthcare a patriotic issue or something, that's why criticizing it warrants a "don't come here"? Where the hell does your comment come from?
    - alphanullmeric 4y ago
      Nothing to do with patriotism, I just question why supporters of collectivism constantly flee to capitalist countries.
      - nobodyandproud 4y ago
        Sounds like misplaced patriotism to me. Not everyone came to this nation due to capitalism. My parents partially came here to be free to say whatever they wanted and not disappear, for instance. It doesn’t mean healthcare is done right; just as using TP to wipe one’s ass is 100 years backward. I sometimes wish they stayed back, because my own life and theirs would’ve probably been much better in the long run.
        alphanullmeric 4y ago
        You’re always free to go back. Unlike many collectivist countries, we won’t stop you from leaving, or try to force you to do things in general. So it’s not unsurprising that your attempts at forcing others to pay for your things is met with hostility when you and others that share your views don’t even want to face those policies themselves.
        nobodyandproud 4y ago
        > You’re always free to go back. Unlike many collectivist countries, we won’t stop you from leaving, or try to force you to do things in general. No, I won’t be forced. I’ll just get shouted down by anonymous accounts just like the cancel culture of the left. You think complacency is patriotism. I actually would prefer to improve my country. > So it’s not unsurprising that your attempts at forcing others to pay for your things is met with hostility when you and others that share your views don’t even want to face those policies themselves. “My attempts”? Your response is indeed hostile, but you have it backwards. My family and I have been directly paying for and subsidizing for your own care and other Federal entitlements for decades. Your response is also irrational to the core. We collectively pay for law enforcement, the military, highways, etc. Why is it suddenly taboo to consider whether we’d actually save money if we had a baseline? Why is the worst of socialized medicine and the worst of market-based medicine an acceptable status quo?
illiarian 4y ago
> Very long wait times due to limited resources, subpar medical care, limited prescription options and drugs, You realize we're discussing the US which has all this? > beauracracy. It's funny you mention this, because the US spends vastly more on bureaucracy in its health systems than other developed nations.
- pithon 4y ago
  [flagged]
nathan_compton 4y ago
This might be true, but as someone who has lived in the U.S. and Europe I can say utterly unequivocally that I preferred Health Care in Europe. I wasn't even in one of the European countries with a great reputation for Health Care. Health Care in the U.S. isn't just bad, its outright fucking brutal. An elderly friend of mine recently fell and went to an urgent care where they couldn't get him into the x-ray machine. They told him to go to an emergency room where he waited for _13_ fucking hours with a broken pelvis. I'm basically 100% sure that such emergency room bullshit literally kills people from stress or exposing them to other sick people. You can't even wait in your damn car and just have them text you - they just force you to sit in this horrible room with a ton of sick people for hours on end. The U.S. Health Care system absolutely fucking blows.
- xwdv 4y ago
  I’m fully insured and have always been well taken care of in the United States health care system. Never wait more than 30 minutes if I were in an emergency room, and usually I’m attended to within 10-15. Doctors appointments are easy to get, never paid much for prescriptions. If I was in a public system, I’d fear I’d be fighting for attention alongside the general public, so I’m not convinced it would be better.
  - stemlord 4y ago
    I'm fully insured and healthy but still just paid almost $3000 in deductubles for a single upper endoscopy (common procedure for 40+ folks). Cigna. In Italy last summer I received a dental xray and diagnosis as a walk-in, for FREE.
    - eecc 4y ago
      Just adding that in Lombardy, the region around Milan who have a bad case of parochial wanna-be NYC, local (right wing) government is pushing towards private health care with lavish subsidies for privates and a grossly underfunded public health system. To get an MRI via public you can wait 1k days, invia private is a next-day appointment although you must be ready to pay thousands EUR. frankly it’s obviously deliberate
xenospn 4y ago
As someone who grew up in israel, I can confirm your statement is factually incorrect.
cmurf 4y ago
Sounds exactly like my private for profit health care provider.

by xwdv 4y ago

PicassoCTs 4y ago

Ah, yes, have a privatized public sector, use the gained funds to lobby in other countries, pushing a ideology that destroys public sector/services, use the result of ones own actions to push the conversion to more privatized public sector. The ultimate glider gun ideology.

weaksauce 4y ago

> Very long wait times due to limited resources, subpar medical care, limited prescription options and drugs, beauracracy. those are all there because the people that created the system did not think paying for it was good enough. it doesn't have to be that way. and even with wait times being long you still eventually get it. in the privatized system if you are poor and have bad health care you don't get it at all.

harshalizee 4y ago

I moved from a third world country with both socialized and private healthcare, to the United States. I pay vastly more for worse healthcare than anywhere I've lived. The fact that you, your doctor can agree that a certain procedure is required, only to be denied by a third party with no medical qualification is absolutely dystopian.

ipaddr 4y ago
Now you are talking about insurance which is the heart of the problem
Mizoguchi 4y ago
I also came to the US from a country with a good hybrid public/private system and my experience in the US had been different. So I guess it depends on where (city/state) you live and also what type of insurance you have. Where I live I have access to a SOTA network of hospitals with great technology and some practices amount the best in the world (people come here from other states and even countries for treatment) and I use their own insurance, so it's been great so far, never dealt with any issues having medical care rejected. I pay $350/month (self employed) and I have a very reasonable deductible, $60 copay to see specialists and many preventive procedures such as cancer and heart disease screenings (which I use), blood work and some PT sessions completely free. I even get discounts on fitness centers and health tracking apps which helps offset part of the premium. My shoulder was actually spared from a very invasive surgery thanks to a doctor top of his field (he sees olympic teams) who was able to treat me with only PT. I don't think I paid more than $1000 out of pocket for everything including several MRIs and multiple visits to his practice, plus several sessions of PT and medications. It could have been free back in my country, I guess, but I could have also been screwed for life due to an unnecessary surgery.
wahnfrieden 4y ago
Sounds like death panels made up of unqualified bureaucrats
- Scoundreller 4y ago
  Both public and private systems have "death panels". Though cited article suggests even death panels run by doctors are no guarantee of effectiveness.
  - wahnfrieden 4y ago
    The article is not about death panels run by doctors, they are run by insurance companies. The doctors in this scenario are workers given bounded instructions on how to operate by the ones running it, without autonomy on how to organize the death panel decisionmaking. It's in the title - the "having" shows who is in control. These are not worker owned cooperatives. Nor are most state owned death panels.
    - Scoundreller 4y ago
      > doctors > without autonomy This is an incredibly poor way to act given that doctors usually have unlimited personal liability, even if they are employees
alphanullmeric 4y ago
Sounds like you should have stayed then.
- drowsspa 4y ago
  Is American healthcare a patriotic issue or something, that's why criticizing it warrants a "don't come here"? Where the hell does your comment come from?
  - alphanullmeric 4y ago
    Nothing to do with patriotism, I just question why supporters of collectivism constantly flee to capitalist countries.
    - nobodyandproud 4y ago
      Sounds like misplaced patriotism to me. Not everyone came to this nation due to capitalism. My parents partially came here to be free to say whatever they wanted and not disappear, for instance. It doesn’t mean healthcare is done right; just as using TP to wipe one’s ass is 100 years backward. I sometimes wish they stayed back, because my own life and theirs would’ve probably been much better in the long run.
      - alphanullmeric 4y ago
        You’re always free to go back. Unlike many collectivist countries, we won’t stop you from leaving, or try to force you to do things in general. So it’s not unsurprising that your attempts at forcing others to pay for your things is met with hostility when you and others that share your views don’t even want to face those policies themselves.
        nobodyandproud 4y ago
        > You’re always free to go back. Unlike many collectivist countries, we won’t stop you from leaving, or try to force you to do things in general. No, I won’t be forced. I’ll just get shouted down by anonymous accounts just like the cancel culture of the left. You think complacency is patriotism. I actually would prefer to improve my country. > So it’s not unsurprising that your attempts at forcing others to pay for your things is met with hostility when you and others that share your views don’t even want to face those policies themselves. “My attempts”? Your response is indeed hostile, but you have it backwards. My family and I have been directly paying for and subsidizing for your own care and other Federal entitlements for decades. Your response is also irrational to the core. We collectively pay for law enforcement, the military, highways, etc. Why is it suddenly taboo to consider whether we’d actually save money if we had a baseline? Why is the worst of socialized medicine and the worst of market-based medicine an acceptable status quo?

illiarian 4y ago

> Very long wait times due to limited resources, subpar medical care, limited prescription options and drugs, You realize we're discussing the US which has all this? > beauracracy. It's funny you mention this, because the US spends vastly more on bureaucracy in its health systems than other developed nations.

pithon 4y ago
[flagged]

nathan_compton 4y ago

This might be true, but as someone who has lived in the U.S. and Europe I can say utterly unequivocally that I preferred Health Care in Europe. I wasn't even in one of the European countries with a great reputation for Health Care. Health Care in the U.S. isn't just bad, its outright fucking brutal. An elderly friend of mine recently fell and went to an urgent care where they couldn't get him into the x-ray machine. They told him to go to an emergency room where he waited for _13_ fucking hours with a broken pelvis. I'm basically 100% sure that such emergency room bullshit literally kills people from stress or exposing them to other sick people. You can't even wait in your damn car and just have them text you - they just force you to sit in this horrible room with a ton of sick people for hours on end. The U.S. Health Care system absolutely fucking blows.

xwdv 4y ago
I’m fully insured and have always been well taken care of in the United States health care system. Never wait more than 30 minutes if I were in an emergency room, and usually I’m attended to within 10-15. Doctors appointments are easy to get, never paid much for prescriptions. If I was in a public system, I’d fear I’d be fighting for attention alongside the general public, so I’m not convinced it would be better.
- stemlord 4y ago
  I'm fully insured and healthy but still just paid almost $3000 in deductubles for a single upper endoscopy (common procedure for 40+ folks). Cigna. In Italy last summer I received a dental xray and diagnosis as a walk-in, for FREE.
  - eecc 4y ago
    Just adding that in Lombardy, the region around Milan who have a bad case of parochial wanna-be NYC, local (right wing) government is pushing towards private health care with lavish subsidies for privates and a grossly underfunded public health system. To get an MRI via public you can wait 1k days, invia private is a next-day appointment although you must be ready to pay thousands EUR. frankly it’s obviously deliberate

xenospn 4y ago

As someone who grew up in israel, I can confirm your statement is factually incorrect.

cmurf 4y ago

Sounds exactly like my private for profit health care provider.