6 ms·

Tesla now factors late night driving into their safety score

53 points by vinnyglennon 4y ago

skee8383 4y ago
yet another reason not to buy an EV. nice. Keep up the bad work crapitalism.
- galoisscobi 4y ago
  Yet another reason to not buy car insurance that tracks you. FTFY
  - jillesvangurp 4y ago
    Depends on how much extra you want to pay for the privilege of not being tracked.
  - skee8383 4y ago
    Yea, like that info wont be shared with other insurance comapanies...
Mizoguchi 4y ago
Buying a Tesla, getting insurance through Tesla itself and then joining their beta autopilot program. Yes, your premium may inexplicably jump.
- dylan604 4y ago
  How do you tell me Tesla owners are in a cult without saying they are in a cult?
LinuxBender 4y ago
Now I am more curious to see the scores of the people I know with Tesla's. Their Tesla is their children's favorite amusement park ride via launching at every traffic light. I don't see a scale for launching. One of my former coworkers would race every kid with a muscle car and win of course.
Bostonian 4y ago
An equivalent headline would be "Tesla owners who don't drive late at night get discounted premiums." Accident rates are higher at night, and premiums should reflect that.
- salawat 4y ago
  How about "insurance company uses built in surveillance capabilities to fleece users extra for what was previously considered normal usage". In case you didn't realize it, insurance companies are a shadow control layer, and it is in everyone's interest to stay on top of what information insurers are allowed to operate off of, as all of them indirectsly converge on the same signals.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
- webmobdev 4y ago
  Premiums should be based on accident rate of the individual driver, especially if you are monitoring each driver's driving habits.
  - paulcole 4y ago
    So until you get in an accident your insurance should be $0.00?
    - webmobdev 4y ago
      I meant "Premium hikes" ... should have been clearer.
  - seanmcdirmid 4y ago
    Insurance is unfortunately based on statistics. The insurance companies found they couldn’t judge risk accurately using your method. Waiting for the bad thing to occur just wasn’t good enough, they had to make predictions.
  - 4y ago
mdmglr 4y ago
So this is only an issue if you get Tesla Insurance. I’m guessing private insurance companies don’t consider the safety score? I work remote and have my groceries delivered. So I’m rarely driving. I called an insurance company to inquire about their CAN-bus OBD 2 port driving monitor to save some money. I drive like less than 2 miles a week. I figured I should have a really low rate since a car sitting in my garage is not a liability. They said that they don’t consider time off the road so it wouldn’t save my anything.
- elmerfud 4y ago
  Of course they don't want to consider time off the road. Historically they've never had a way to monitor it but now they can they for sure don't want too. It will cut in to their profits. Like my car has been in my garage for 2 months on a battery tender and will probably be there another 2 months before I drive it because I'm out of the country. Even when I'm home stores and food are walking distance. My main driving was too take a fried to work and shopping, but now she has her own car if we go out she drives.
  - bdw5204 4y ago
    That's one reason why I have no interest in purchasing a car or even getting a driver's license. If I can live in a walkable area with public transit and just walk or take the train/bus everywhere, I can save an enormous amount of money by not owning a car. If you're not using a car on a regular basis, it is probably much cheaper to just sell the car, cancel your insurance and use Uber or Lyft when you do need a car.
    - Broken_Hippo 4y ago
      Living in such an area is a luxury. I didn't have access to this stuff until I moved out of the US and into a larger town. Small to medium sized towns in the Midwest aren't exactly known for having public transportation or things conveniently located. Sure, the small towns are walkable, but you might have to drive 25 minutes to buy shoes. And even here, if I move out of town, I realistically will need a car. But it isnt a given since I'm also more likely to have access to intercity bike paths, trains, and a few inconvenient busses.
0xGod 4y ago
I will ban Tesla if they don’t stop using their technology as a way to strip people of their freedom. If Tesla wants to become Big Brother they will go out of business really really quickly once open alternatives are constructed. Tesla is just early in next-gen vehicles. But Yahoo was early in search and look what happened. The future is open hardware, open manufacturing, cheap manufacturing, cheap hardware, and open software that the user controls. Your car should not be phoning home for this or trying to regulate your behavior this way, because the next step is someone trying to penalize free movement on the basis of ideology. We will not allow this pipeline to be built. We will not tolerate enslavement of free peoples.
- ajross 4y ago
  You got spun badly by a deliberately misleading headline. This is insurance coverage. Lots of insurance providers, including Tesla, offer an opt-in driver monitoring discount. If you don't want it don't buy the product; it's got nothing to do with the car except for where the telemetry comes from.
  - kraussvonespy 4y ago
    Agreed. Complaining that the product you purchased does exactly what it was designed to do isn't really a "freedom" issue. If one wants to drive fast at night in a Tesla, there are many companies that don't monitor vehicle use. Choose one of those instead. That's freedom.
- chasd00 4y ago
  So many people want this though. It’s very depressing. During the lockdowns there were people who reluctantly complied but many others (even here) were so happy to be under control. They relished the thought of someone else making all the decisions for them where everything was forbidden except what was explicitly permitted. A huge part of society just begs and begs for subjugation.
  - harvey9 4y ago
    I was happy to have a legal basis to decline to come in to the office. I've not met anyone who was happy to be restricted in when they could go out of their home.
_fat_santa 4y ago
My response to this is "eh whatever". Insurance companies have the right to do things like this, and you as a consumer have the right to pick up the phone and get a policy with the different company. If I had to guess, this "feature" will be killed soon after public backlash. Likely it was thought up in the depths of product management and will get yanked once the rubber hits the road and they realize people are not going to put up with it.
- benrbray 4y ago
  Driving without insurance is illegal in virtually every state, and the supreme court has ruled that driving is a "virtual necessity" [1] to American life. I am normally very r/fuckcars but this sort of thing affects everyone and as surveillance becomes cheaper and cheaper we may not have a choice. (if cars are dangerous, which they of course are, the way to fix it is to build walkable cities, not to charge higher rates for the graveyard shift workers who have no say in the matter) [1] https://www.law.cornell.edu/supremecourt/text/430/705 https://www.law.cornell.edu/supremecourt/text/430/705
  - throw0101b 4y ago
    There is self-insurance in some places: * https://www.motor1.com/products-services/auto-insurance/automobile-self-insurance/ https://www.motor1.com/products-services/auto-insurance/auto... * https://www.caranddriver.com/car-insurance/a36421647/self-insurance-car/ https://www.caranddriver.com/car-insurance/a36421647/self-in... The minimum legal requirements in the US are not that high either: * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vehicle_insurance_in_the_United_States#Requirements_by_state https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vehicle_insurance_in_the_Unite...
  - ashwagary 4y ago
    >Driving without insurance is illegal in virtually every state, Legally speaking, insurance, registration, and licensing is only required of drivers/transport engaging in commercial activity (taxi, cargo, etc). This is not commonly known but there are court precedents that establish driving in a non-commercial capacity on publicly owned roadways is a constitutionally protected right under common law that cannot be infringed by state and local laws.
super256 4y ago
A lot of Teslas that come my way (at night) are blinding me. I suspect that the autopilot or some other assist-system it turning on high-beam whenever possible, and sometimes doesn't turn high-beam off for opposing traffic. Can someone with a Tesla shine some light on why this happens?
- malwrar 4y ago
  It’s an automatic feature, I’m pretty sure on mine I have to menu dive to turn them off. The svelte minimalist asthetic of the 3 is cool and all until you start needing to do things beyond turn the wheel until point B. Between things like that and the oversensitive hazard alert feature I’m pretty sure I’m going to ditch mine.
  - fiddlerwoaroof 4y ago
    You just push the left stick forward to turn off auto high beams.
- alphabettsy 4y ago
  Could be high beam assist or misaligned headlamps like many other vehicles.
itschuntttttt 4y ago
[dead]
- hn_throwaway_99 4y ago
  > Usage based insurance is a choice. Exactly. I honestly despise these kinds of "leopards ate my face" posts. This one is presumably (1) User specifically signs up for usage-based insurance, then (2) User is shocked that their insurance rates go up because they engage in riskier driving behavior. True, I'm not sure if the risk model is that accurate when your rates go up if you only drive once at 2AM, but there are very good reasons why rates do go up if you drive between 10PM-4AM, as those are by far more dangerous times to drive.
brookst 4y ago
It’s probably just Tesla realizing that their software’s preference for leaving high beams on 100% of the time at night makes other drivers more likely to crash into them, thus higher rates required.
electric_mayhem 4y ago
Inflammatory and misleading headline. This applies to drivers who use Tesla’s insurance offering. Not tesla owners as a group.
marvin 4y ago
Choose a different insurance company, then. I get the disagreement with the surveillance, but choosing to drive a Tesla and choosing to use their insurance are both active decisions with hundreds of competitive alternatives.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]

53 points by vinnyglennon 4y ago

skee8383 4y ago

yet another reason not to buy an EV. nice. Keep up the bad work crapitalism.

galoisscobi 4y ago
Yet another reason to not buy car insurance that tracks you. FTFY
- jillesvangurp 4y ago
  Depends on how much extra you want to pay for the privilege of not being tracked.
- skee8383 4y ago
  Yea, like that info wont be shared with other insurance comapanies...

Mizoguchi 4y ago

Buying a Tesla, getting insurance through Tesla itself and then joining their beta autopilot program. Yes, your premium may inexplicably jump.

dylan604 4y ago
How do you tell me Tesla owners are in a cult without saying they are in a cult?

LinuxBender 4y ago

Now I am more curious to see the scores of the people I know with Tesla's. Their Tesla is their children's favorite amusement park ride via launching at every traffic light. I don't see a scale for launching. One of my former coworkers would race every kid with a muscle car and win of course.

Bostonian 4y ago

An equivalent headline would be "Tesla owners who don't drive late at night get discounted premiums." Accident rates are higher at night, and premiums should reflect that.

salawat 4y ago
How about "insurance company uses built in surveillance capabilities to fleece users extra for what was previously considered normal usage". In case you didn't realize it, insurance companies are a shadow control layer, and it is in everyone's interest to stay on top of what information insurers are allowed to operate off of, as all of them indirectsly converge on the same signals.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
webmobdev 4y ago
Premiums should be based on accident rate of the individual driver, especially if you are monitoring each driver's driving habits.
- paulcole 4y ago
  So until you get in an accident your insurance should be $0.00?
  - webmobdev 4y ago
    I meant "Premium hikes" ... should have been clearer.
- seanmcdirmid 4y ago
  Insurance is unfortunately based on statistics. The insurance companies found they couldn’t judge risk accurately using your method. Waiting for the bad thing to occur just wasn’t good enough, they had to make predictions.
- 4y ago

mdmglr 4y ago

So this is only an issue if you get Tesla Insurance. I’m guessing private insurance companies don’t consider the safety score? I work remote and have my groceries delivered. So I’m rarely driving. I called an insurance company to inquire about their CAN-bus OBD 2 port driving monitor to save some money. I drive like less than 2 miles a week. I figured I should have a really low rate since a car sitting in my garage is not a liability. They said that they don’t consider time off the road so it wouldn’t save my anything.

elmerfud 4y ago
Of course they don't want to consider time off the road. Historically they've never had a way to monitor it but now they can they for sure don't want too. It will cut in to their profits. Like my car has been in my garage for 2 months on a battery tender and will probably be there another 2 months before I drive it because I'm out of the country. Even when I'm home stores and food are walking distance. My main driving was too take a fried to work and shopping, but now she has her own car if we go out she drives.
- bdw5204 4y ago
  That's one reason why I have no interest in purchasing a car or even getting a driver's license. If I can live in a walkable area with public transit and just walk or take the train/bus everywhere, I can save an enormous amount of money by not owning a car. If you're not using a car on a regular basis, it is probably much cheaper to just sell the car, cancel your insurance and use Uber or Lyft when you do need a car.
  - Broken_Hippo 4y ago
    Living in such an area is a luxury. I didn't have access to this stuff until I moved out of the US and into a larger town. Small to medium sized towns in the Midwest aren't exactly known for having public transportation or things conveniently located. Sure, the small towns are walkable, but you might have to drive 25 minutes to buy shoes. And even here, if I move out of town, I realistically will need a car. But it isnt a given since I'm also more likely to have access to intercity bike paths, trains, and a few inconvenient busses.

0xGod 4y ago

I will ban Tesla if they don’t stop using their technology as a way to strip people of their freedom. If Tesla wants to become Big Brother they will go out of business really really quickly once open alternatives are constructed. Tesla is just early in next-gen vehicles. But Yahoo was early in search and look what happened. The future is open hardware, open manufacturing, cheap manufacturing, cheap hardware, and open software that the user controls. Your car should not be phoning home for this or trying to regulate your behavior this way, because the next step is someone trying to penalize free movement on the basis of ideology. We will not allow this pipeline to be built. We will not tolerate enslavement of free peoples.

ajross 4y ago
You got spun badly by a deliberately misleading headline. This is insurance coverage. Lots of insurance providers, including Tesla, offer an opt-in driver monitoring discount. If you don't want it don't buy the product; it's got nothing to do with the car except for where the telemetry comes from.
- kraussvonespy 4y ago
  Agreed. Complaining that the product you purchased does exactly what it was designed to do isn't really a "freedom" issue. If one wants to drive fast at night in a Tesla, there are many companies that don't monitor vehicle use. Choose one of those instead. That's freedom.
chasd00 4y ago
So many people want this though. It’s very depressing. During the lockdowns there were people who reluctantly complied but many others (even here) were so happy to be under control. They relished the thought of someone else making all the decisions for them where everything was forbidden except what was explicitly permitted. A huge part of society just begs and begs for subjugation.
- harvey9 4y ago
  I was happy to have a legal basis to decline to come in to the office. I've not met anyone who was happy to be restricted in when they could go out of their home.

_fat_santa 4y ago

My response to this is "eh whatever". Insurance companies have the right to do things like this, and you as a consumer have the right to pick up the phone and get a policy with the different company. If I had to guess, this "feature" will be killed soon after public backlash. Likely it was thought up in the depths of product management and will get yanked once the rubber hits the road and they realize people are not going to put up with it.

benrbray 4y ago
Driving without insurance is illegal in virtually every state, and the supreme court has ruled that driving is a "virtual necessity" [1] to American life. I am normally very r/fuckcars but this sort of thing affects everyone and as surveillance becomes cheaper and cheaper we may not have a choice. (if cars are dangerous, which they of course are, the way to fix it is to build walkable cities, not to charge higher rates for the graveyard shift workers who have no say in the matter) [1] https://www.law.cornell.edu/supremecourt/text/430/705 https://www.law.cornell.edu/supremecourt/text/430/705
- throw0101b 4y ago
  There is self-insurance in some places: * https://www.motor1.com/products-services/auto-insurance/automobile-self-insurance/ https://www.motor1.com/products-services/auto-insurance/auto... * https://www.caranddriver.com/car-insurance/a36421647/self-insurance-car/ https://www.caranddriver.com/car-insurance/a36421647/self-in... The minimum legal requirements in the US are not that high either: * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vehicle_insurance_in_the_United_States#Requirements_by_state https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vehicle_insurance_in_the_Unite...
- ashwagary 4y ago
  >Driving without insurance is illegal in virtually every state, Legally speaking, insurance, registration, and licensing is only required of drivers/transport engaging in commercial activity (taxi, cargo, etc). This is not commonly known but there are court precedents that establish driving in a non-commercial capacity on publicly owned roadways is a constitutionally protected right under common law that cannot be infringed by state and local laws.

super256 4y ago

A lot of Teslas that come my way (at night) are blinding me. I suspect that the autopilot or some other assist-system it turning on high-beam whenever possible, and sometimes doesn't turn high-beam off for opposing traffic. Can someone with a Tesla shine some light on why this happens?

malwrar 4y ago
It’s an automatic feature, I’m pretty sure on mine I have to menu dive to turn them off. The svelte minimalist asthetic of the 3 is cool and all until you start needing to do things beyond turn the wheel until point B. Between things like that and the oversensitive hazard alert feature I’m pretty sure I’m going to ditch mine.
- fiddlerwoaroof 4y ago
  You just push the left stick forward to turn off auto high beams.
alphabettsy 4y ago
Could be high beam assist or misaligned headlamps like many other vehicles.

itschuntttttt 4y ago

[dead]

hn_throwaway_99 4y ago
> Usage based insurance is a choice. Exactly. I honestly despise these kinds of "leopards ate my face" posts. This one is presumably (1) User specifically signs up for usage-based insurance, then (2) User is shocked that their insurance rates go up because they engage in riskier driving behavior. True, I'm not sure if the risk model is that accurate when your rates go up if you only drive once at 2AM, but there are very good reasons why rates do go up if you drive between 10PM-4AM, as those are by far more dangerous times to drive.

brookst 4y ago

It’s probably just Tesla realizing that their software’s preference for leaving high beams on 100% of the time at night makes other drivers more likely to crash into them, thus higher rates required.

electric_mayhem 4y ago

Inflammatory and misleading headline. This applies to drivers who use Tesla’s insurance offering. Not tesla owners as a group.

marvin 4y ago

Choose a different insurance company, then. I get the disagreement with the surveillance, but choosing to drive a Tesla and choosing to use their insurance are both active decisions with hundreds of competitive alternatives.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]