4 ms·

Who cares about keeping deposits safe when money isn’t worth anything? Americans don’t even have money in the bank. Median savings is $4500. Many people who p

by alxmng 4y ago

Who cares about keeping deposits safe when money isn’t worth anything? Americans don’t even have money in the bank. Median savings is $4500. Many people who perform socially useful jobs can barely afford the basic basket of goods like rent, food, and transportation.

mym1990 4y ago
Ah but we have a solution to that: its called going into a crippling amount of debt which one will never be able to pay off, which will guarantee a revolving door leading right into the bank's pocket book!
LoganDark 4y ago
> Americans don’t even have money in the bank. Median savings is $4500. > Many people who materially contribute by doing socially useful jobs can barely afford the basic basket of goods like rent, food, and transportation. I... hate that this is so accurate...
arcticbull 4y ago
My money still seems to work great. Those are some serious fiscal and social (but not monetary) issues that should be taken up with Congress not the Fed, and not the FDIC. Who handled this all very well I might add. > Median savings is $4500. The average American family has a $748,000 net worth, according to Federal Reserve data, median $121,000. Savings isn't just what's in your 'savings' account. Mine definitely isn't. Money is a medium of exchange and unit of account. It's not a tool for building wealth, and it's not a long-term store of value. It never was. They shouldn't have money in the bank, they should have it productively invested.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- klyrs 4y ago
  By your numbers, the median American family could put their entire net worth towards a cramped condo and still be making payments. That is not the image of stability that you're pretending it is.
  - arcticbull 4y ago
    It’s hardly the image of stability but saying people only have $4500 and it’s the Fed’s fault is wrong in two ways.
    - klyrs 4y ago
      Problem being that total assets does not measure liquidity. That people only have $4500 of cash is a significant problem if they have a relatively minor emergency. Especially in the US, where a $4500 hospital bill is pretty cheap.
      - deleted 4y ago
        [deleted]
      - arcticbull 4y ago
        Sure, but you can't mark 100% of non-cash net worth as completely illiquid. You can borrow against the value of your home, borrow against the value of your 401(k), sell your stock. If you need a few days to move money around, there's credit cards. Personal loans. It really depends on what you're trying to measure.
- Beached 4y ago
  average!= trimmed average and the real number to use is median. the upper and lower percentiles skew the data sooooooooo much. in statistics, one of the first things you learn is to not make decisions based average, but used trimmed averages and median. 121k net worth is NOT a good number to be sitting at when you are 45, let alone at 65. that is. savings rate faaaaaaar below what you need to provide for yourself in old age one you can no longer earn income. we do not want to generate a class of people reliant on aid for basic subsistence. also note that net worth is not liquid for most people. people can't live without shelter, or without transportation to their jobs, and so they cannot liquidate their car to tap into their net worth for food costs. 121k median means peoples net worth doesn't even come close to covering their shelter requirements. for most people money isn't even working to get them by day to day, let alone working two functions of today, and saving for tomorrow.
- blitzar 4y ago
  The average net worth of me and Elon Musk is $96.3bn.
- nmca 4y ago
  mean is totally inappropriate here (but good that you provided median)
- imtringued 4y ago
  The problem is the difference between the average and the median.
pdonis 4y ago
> Americans don’t even have money in the bank. Median savings is $4500. But M1 is about three times M0; the difference, about $12T, comes to about $400K per American, so some Americans do have significant money in the bank.
- pdonis 4y ago
  Correction, about $40K per American (or about $37K if we subtract cash on hand for businesses, per another post downthread). Still about 9 (or 8) times the median.
- Rury 4y ago
  Does M1 include accounts held by companies/businesses?
  - pdonis 4y ago
    AFAIK yes, it includes all demand deposits regardless of who the depositor is. As far as how that affects the calculation I made, from what I can find online, total cash on hand for US businesses is about $1T, so that would have to be subtracted from the difference between M1 and M0 to find average cash deposits per person for individual accounts.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
- Broken_Hippo 4y ago
  On the other hand, $4500 is nearly 3 months of income for quite a few people, pre-tax. ($10/hour, 40 hours a week for 3 months is $4800). And it isn't like you are going to be able to save much at those wages. In other words, a significant amount of Americans have little-to-no money saved.
mNovak 4y ago
If anyone is interested, as I was, data up to 2019 comes from [1]. Note that it's plotting medians of those who hold the asset, so i.e. "non-residential real estate" (held by 7% of households) is median $70k. [1] https://www.federalreserve.gov/econres/scf/dataviz/scf/chart/ https://www.federalreserve.gov/econres/scf/dataviz/scf/chart...

by alxmng 4y ago

mym1990 4y ago

Ah but we have a solution to that: its called going into a crippling amount of debt which one will never be able to pay off, which will guarantee a revolving door leading right into the bank's pocket book!

LoganDark 4y ago

> Americans don’t even have money in the bank. Median savings is $4500. > Many people who materially contribute by doing socially useful jobs can barely afford the basic basket of goods like rent, food, and transportation. I... hate that this is so accurate...

arcticbull 4y ago

My money still seems to work great. Those are some serious fiscal and social (but not monetary) issues that should be taken up with Congress not the Fed, and not the FDIC. Who handled this all very well I might add. > Median savings is $4500. The average American family has a $748,000 net worth, according to Federal Reserve data, median $121,000. Savings isn't just what's in your 'savings' account. Mine definitely isn't. Money is a medium of exchange and unit of account. It's not a tool for building wealth, and it's not a long-term store of value. It never was. They shouldn't have money in the bank, they should have it productively invested.

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
klyrs 4y ago
By your numbers, the median American family could put their entire net worth towards a cramped condo and still be making payments. That is not the image of stability that you're pretending it is.
- arcticbull 4y ago
  It’s hardly the image of stability but saying people only have $4500 and it’s the Fed’s fault is wrong in two ways.
  - klyrs 4y ago
    Problem being that total assets does not measure liquidity. That people only have $4500 of cash is a significant problem if they have a relatively minor emergency. Especially in the US, where a $4500 hospital bill is pretty cheap.
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
    - arcticbull 4y ago
      Sure, but you can't mark 100% of non-cash net worth as completely illiquid. You can borrow against the value of your home, borrow against the value of your 401(k), sell your stock. If you need a few days to move money around, there's credit cards. Personal loans. It really depends on what you're trying to measure.
Beached 4y ago
average!= trimmed average and the real number to use is median. the upper and lower percentiles skew the data sooooooooo much. in statistics, one of the first things you learn is to not make decisions based average, but used trimmed averages and median. 121k net worth is NOT a good number to be sitting at when you are 45, let alone at 65. that is. savings rate faaaaaaar below what you need to provide for yourself in old age one you can no longer earn income. we do not want to generate a class of people reliant on aid for basic subsistence. also note that net worth is not liquid for most people. people can't live without shelter, or without transportation to their jobs, and so they cannot liquidate their car to tap into their net worth for food costs. 121k median means peoples net worth doesn't even come close to covering their shelter requirements. for most people money isn't even working to get them by day to day, let alone working two functions of today, and saving for tomorrow.
blitzar 4y ago
The average net worth of me and Elon Musk is $96.3bn.
nmca 4y ago
mean is totally inappropriate here (but good that you provided median)
imtringued 4y ago
The problem is the difference between the average and the median.

pdonis 4y ago

> Americans don’t even have money in the bank. Median savings is $4500. But M1 is about three times M0; the difference, about $12T, comes to about $400K per American, so some Americans do have significant money in the bank.

pdonis 4y ago
Correction, about $40K per American (or about $37K if we subtract cash on hand for businesses, per another post downthread). Still about 9 (or 8) times the median.
Rury 4y ago
Does M1 include accounts held by companies/businesses?
- pdonis 4y ago
  AFAIK yes, it includes all demand deposits regardless of who the depositor is. As far as how that affects the calculation I made, from what I can find online, total cash on hand for US businesses is about $1T, so that would have to be subtracted from the difference between M1 and M0 to find average cash deposits per person for individual accounts.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
Broken_Hippo 4y ago
On the other hand, $4500 is nearly 3 months of income for quite a few people, pre-tax. ($10/hour, 40 hours a week for 3 months is $4800). And it isn't like you are going to be able to save much at those wages. In other words, a significant amount of Americans have little-to-no money saved.

mNovak 4y ago

If anyone is interested, as I was, data up to 2019 comes from [1]. Note that it's plotting medians of those who hold the asset, so i.e. "non-residential real estate" (held by 7% of households) is median $70k. [1] https://www.federalreserve.gov/econres/scf/dataviz/scf/chart/ https://www.federalreserve.gov/econres/scf/dataviz/scf/chart...