6 ms·

The system shouldn't require lobbying to get results that benefit the greater good

JumpCrisscross 4y ago
> system shouldn't require lobbying to get results that benefit the greater good It does when there is disagreement over what constitutes the greater good.
- bcrosby95 4y ago
  This made me chuckle pretty hard. When lobbying enters the picture there's only a small, selective group of people that are going to constitute the greater good.
  - majormajor 4y ago
    I think you're referring to financial aspects of today's lobbying alone, but I think it's impossible to suggest you could have any sort of consideration of the greater good without taking into account different people's view on what that is, which means them trying to persuade you of it, which is the exact definition of lobbying.
    - ryandrake 4y ago
      It doesn't matter what "different people's view" is. With corporations lobbying, there is no greater good, only greater wallet.
    - User23 4y ago
      Not really. Lobbyists are merely bag-men for the real shot-callers.
- brewdad 4y ago
  A handful of corporations vs the entire population of planet earth, or a nation’s subset, should be pretty obvious where the greater good lies.
  - JumpCrisscross 4y ago
    > should be pretty obvious where the greater good lies Is this facetious? What constitutes the greater good is the entire point of government. Many things you think are obvious are lines another would die to prevent--this is the basis of civics.
- Timwi 4y ago
  There is actually no such disagreement. The corporations and copyright mafia are very open about the fact that their profits are more important to them than the common good.
IncRnd 4y ago
The system is founded on protecting the rights of individuals. That's the system we have today, not a collective rights system.
majormajor 4y ago
How would that be accomplished? What are the options here? 1) an elected legislature that's supposed to consider the greater good? 2) a generally non-elected judiciary that is supposed to consider the greater good to override the legislature? 3) a hopefully-benevolent dictator to consider the greater good? Obviously any of these methods can fail; the first of them is the easiest to "edit," as it were. Things like term limits would likely improve it, though.
- kelseyfrog 4y ago
  We're kinda taught that we choose representatives which reflect our values through the process of election and that those elected officials should they not reflect our values, are at the mercy of the electorate in the next election. Instead, few elections are competitive and the representation happens through the lobbying process. In short, the accountability story we're taught isn't true and money talks more than votes. It's this bait and switch that has the unintended consequence of fueling populism and the disbelief that representatives represent us, and that institutions work. Here's a dumb idea. Create and advocate for a congressional proportional representation interstate compact in the same vein as the National Popular Vote Interstate Compact[1]. Then advocate for pooled campaign financing as a function of proportional representation[2]. The nice thing about interstate compacts is that they can eventually capture a majority given election variability over time. They divide and conquer the problem into actionable tasks that effectively aggregate. 1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Popular_Vote_Interstate_Compact https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Popular_Vote_Intersta... 2. purposefully being vague. what would softmax(T>>1) look like, for instance?
  - Dalewyn 4y ago
    Citing the National Popular Vote Interstate Compact indicates you have no understanding of the political organization of the United States of America. I implore you to do your homework, but I will tell you the compact would only serve to reduce the voice of the people (that is to say, reduce democracy) rather than increase them.
    - 4y ago
idiotsecant 4y ago
that's like saying the washing machine should fold my socks after it's done washing them. That would be nice, but when you're running a large organization like IA you should be less concerned with how things should be and more concerned with how things are.

> system shouldn't require lobbying to get results that benefit the greater good It does when there is disagreement over what constitutes the greater good.

bcrosby95 4y ago
This made me chuckle pretty hard. When lobbying enters the picture there's only a small, selective group of people that are going to constitute the greater good.
- majormajor 4y ago
  I think you're referring to financial aspects of today's lobbying alone, but I think it's impossible to suggest you could have any sort of consideration of the greater good without taking into account different people's view on what that is, which means them trying to persuade you of it, which is the exact definition of lobbying.
  - ryandrake 4y ago
    It doesn't matter what "different people's view" is. With corporations lobbying, there is no greater good, only greater wallet.
  - User23 4y ago
    Not really. Lobbyists are merely bag-men for the real shot-callers.
brewdad 4y ago
A handful of corporations vs the entire population of planet earth, or a nation’s subset, should be pretty obvious where the greater good lies.
- JumpCrisscross 4y ago
  > should be pretty obvious where the greater good lies Is this facetious? What constitutes the greater good is the entire point of government. Many things you think are obvious are lines another would die to prevent--this is the basis of civics.
Timwi 4y ago
There is actually no such disagreement. The corporations and copyright mafia are very open about the fact that their profits are more important to them than the common good.

IncRnd 4y ago

The system is founded on protecting the rights of individuals. That's the system we have today, not a collective rights system.

majormajor 4y ago

How would that be accomplished? What are the options here? 1) an elected legislature that's supposed to consider the greater good? 2) a generally non-elected judiciary that is supposed to consider the greater good to override the legislature? 3) a hopefully-benevolent dictator to consider the greater good? Obviously any of these methods can fail; the first of them is the easiest to "edit," as it were. Things like term limits would likely improve it, though.

kelseyfrog 4y ago
We're kinda taught that we choose representatives which reflect our values through the process of election and that those elected officials should they not reflect our values, are at the mercy of the electorate in the next election. Instead, few elections are competitive and the representation happens through the lobbying process. In short, the accountability story we're taught isn't true and money talks more than votes. It's this bait and switch that has the unintended consequence of fueling populism and the disbelief that representatives represent us, and that institutions work. Here's a dumb idea. Create and advocate for a congressional proportional representation interstate compact in the same vein as the National Popular Vote Interstate Compact[1]. Then advocate for pooled campaign financing as a function of proportional representation[2]. The nice thing about interstate compacts is that they can eventually capture a majority given election variability over time. They divide and conquer the problem into actionable tasks that effectively aggregate. 1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Popular_Vote_Interstate_Compact https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Popular_Vote_Intersta... 2. purposefully being vague. what would softmax(T>>1) look like, for instance?
- Dalewyn 4y ago
  Citing the National Popular Vote Interstate Compact indicates you have no understanding of the political organization of the United States of America. I implore you to do your homework, but I will tell you the compact would only serve to reduce the voice of the people (that is to say, reduce democracy) rather than increase them.
  - 4y ago

idiotsecant 4y ago

that's like saying the washing machine should fold my socks after it's done washing them. That would be nice, but when you're running a large organization like IA you should be less concerned with how things should be and more concerned with how things are.