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For organizations like the Video Game History Foundation (https://gamehistory.org/ https://gamehistory.org/) that are trying to preserve video games in an above

For organizations like the Video Game History Foundation (https://gamehistory.org/ https://gamehistory.org/) that are trying to preserve video games in an above board way, things really are as dire as this article describes. For VGHF to fulfill its mission, it's just not enough that this work is done. "Nobody is prosecuting us" isn't a firm enough foundation for an above board, charity funded organization that makes this work legal and accessible.

ajmurmann 4y ago
Are the statements about the quality of the copy true as well? I had always assumed, it's digital, so it either works or it doesn't. I know there are problems emulating some games well, but I always thought that was because of shortcomings in the emulator or things like chips on the game cartridge that also need to be emulated.
- dfxm12 4y ago
  I'm not sure exactly what statements you're referring to, but consider if you've ever seen a [b] in a rom filename, that means it's known to be a "bad dump". Compare this to roms with [!] in their filename, which signifies a "verified good dump".
  - AdmiralAsshat 4y ago
    Damn. I wonder how many games I fully played through back in the day against a known "bad" dump. EDIT: Now I'm even more confused as to why some of those "good sets" would even contain known bad dumps.
    - dfxm12 4y ago
      I think the Good Sets were meant to archive every single dump of every game.
    - wk_end 4y ago
      Once upon a time there was a program called "GoodTools" that maintained a database of all known dumps, so you could run it against your ROMs and it could identify which ROMs were known bad. Dumb completionists then decide to collect and distribute sets containing every ROM - including the bad ones - in the GoodTools database, so-called "good sets", which besides wasting lots of bandwidth and storage space (at a time when this stuff wasn't quite so cheap!) also unfortunately helped bad dumps stick around.
- wk_end 4y ago
  It's definitely overstating things. Bad dumps are possible and were somewhat common back in the day when people were spreading ROMs via GeoCities pages and Usenet, but these days databases like No-Intro and Redump have helped make sure that they're rare - you can easily verify your ROMs against known good ones.
actionablefiber 4y ago
One consideration is that some games implement checksums and other copy protection measures to detect if they've been copied, and then refuse to run - or appear to run normally at first but sneakily punish the player. Preserving these games in a playable format necessarily means you have to defeat the copy protection. I have to imagine that it looks bad to do this even when you have noble intentions.
- yurishimo 4y ago
  I think the number of games that include player punishment is astonishingly small. The more prescient threat is DRM and server only experiences. So many games will never be experienced again after the servers are turned off. I think it’s the community’s job to lobby game publishers to release source code for games and severs if they are sunsetted forever. Convincing the corporate world to let go of IP before copyright expires will be tough, but we’re naïeve to believe that these companies will still have intact source code in 50 years. Hard drives fail, cloud buckets get abandoned and then the bill doesn’t get paid, etc etc. It’s not looking super optimistic for game archival, but there is _a path_ forward to improve the situation.
  - MegaDeKay 4y ago
    > I think it’s the community’s job to lobby game publishers to release source code for games and severs Very very unlikely (unfortunately), especially for outfits like Nintendo. As long as there are eShops and remasters, there is the opportunity to cash in on old IP. And getting source code for games is one thing - getting the assets are another. Even for the example of Doom that is everywhere, only the shareware assets were set free. For consoles, emulation and reverse engineering are probably the best and likely only way forward IMHO.
  - coldpie 4y ago
    > I think the number of games that include player punishment is astonishingly small. This is true, but they're fun to read about! https://tcrf.net/Category:Games_with_anti-piracy_methods https://tcrf.net/Category:Games_with_anti-piracy_methods
  - 4y ago
cjsawyer 4y ago
This is something society needs to deal with. If not for groups like them eventually the media will be lost. IMO there should be a rule that if something isn’t for sale by the rights holder for X years it becomes legal to distribute copies freely.
- coldacid 4y ago
  Agreed, but that still wouldn't help with games that have primarily online experiences, because things like server programs and content management systems also need to be archived for those -- and these (almost) never reach the hands of the people.
Rapzid 4y ago
Yeah it must be demoralizing to know the community is executing at a level they simply can't achieve. Maybe that calls into question the need for their existence or their mission. Maybe their rolen is to fail so laws can change.
- billjings 4y ago
  The VGHF is a part of the same community that builds things like the MiSTer. Just a different wing of it, doing a different job. A wing that is advocating for changes to the law, by the way. So maybe you should donate! https://gamehistory.org/donate/ https://gamehistory.org/donate/
  - Rapzid 4y ago
    I leave that for those who care about above/under board.

ajmurmann 4y ago

Are the statements about the quality of the copy true as well? I had always assumed, it's digital, so it either works or it doesn't. I know there are problems emulating some games well, but I always thought that was because of shortcomings in the emulator or things like chips on the game cartridge that also need to be emulated.

dfxm12 4y ago
I'm not sure exactly what statements you're referring to, but consider if you've ever seen a [b] in a rom filename, that means it's known to be a "bad dump". Compare this to roms with [!] in their filename, which signifies a "verified good dump".
- AdmiralAsshat 4y ago
  Damn. I wonder how many games I fully played through back in the day against a known "bad" dump. EDIT: Now I'm even more confused as to why some of those "good sets" would even contain known bad dumps.
  - dfxm12 4y ago
    I think the Good Sets were meant to archive every single dump of every game.
  - wk_end 4y ago
    Once upon a time there was a program called "GoodTools" that maintained a database of all known dumps, so you could run it against your ROMs and it could identify which ROMs were known bad. Dumb completionists then decide to collect and distribute sets containing every ROM - including the bad ones - in the GoodTools database, so-called "good sets", which besides wasting lots of bandwidth and storage space (at a time when this stuff wasn't quite so cheap!) also unfortunately helped bad dumps stick around.
wk_end 4y ago
It's definitely overstating things. Bad dumps are possible and were somewhat common back in the day when people were spreading ROMs via GeoCities pages and Usenet, but these days databases like No-Intro and Redump have helped make sure that they're rare - you can easily verify your ROMs against known good ones.

actionablefiber 4y ago

One consideration is that some games implement checksums and other copy protection measures to detect if they've been copied, and then refuse to run - or appear to run normally at first but sneakily punish the player. Preserving these games in a playable format necessarily means you have to defeat the copy protection. I have to imagine that it looks bad to do this even when you have noble intentions.

yurishimo 4y ago
I think the number of games that include player punishment is astonishingly small. The more prescient threat is DRM and server only experiences. So many games will never be experienced again after the servers are turned off. I think it’s the community’s job to lobby game publishers to release source code for games and severs if they are sunsetted forever. Convincing the corporate world to let go of IP before copyright expires will be tough, but we’re naïeve to believe that these companies will still have intact source code in 50 years. Hard drives fail, cloud buckets get abandoned and then the bill doesn’t get paid, etc etc. It’s not looking super optimistic for game archival, but there is _a path_ forward to improve the situation.
- MegaDeKay 4y ago
  > I think it’s the community’s job to lobby game publishers to release source code for games and severs Very very unlikely (unfortunately), especially for outfits like Nintendo. As long as there are eShops and remasters, there is the opportunity to cash in on old IP. And getting source code for games is one thing - getting the assets are another. Even for the example of Doom that is everywhere, only the shareware assets were set free. For consoles, emulation and reverse engineering are probably the best and likely only way forward IMHO.
- coldpie 4y ago
  > I think the number of games that include player punishment is astonishingly small. This is true, but they're fun to read about! https://tcrf.net/Category:Games_with_anti-piracy_methods https://tcrf.net/Category:Games_with_anti-piracy_methods
- 4y ago

cjsawyer 4y ago

This is something society needs to deal with. If not for groups like them eventually the media will be lost. IMO there should be a rule that if something isn’t for sale by the rights holder for X years it becomes legal to distribute copies freely.

coldacid 4y ago
Agreed, but that still wouldn't help with games that have primarily online experiences, because things like server programs and content management systems also need to be archived for those -- and these (almost) never reach the hands of the people.

Rapzid 4y ago

Yeah it must be demoralizing to know the community is executing at a level they simply can't achieve. Maybe that calls into question the need for their existence or their mission. Maybe their rolen is to fail so laws can change.

billjings 4y ago
The VGHF is a part of the same community that builds things like the MiSTer. Just a different wing of it, doing a different job. A wing that is advocating for changes to the law, by the way. So maybe you should donate! https://gamehistory.org/donate/ https://gamehistory.org/donate/
- Rapzid 4y ago
  I leave that for those who care about above/under board.