8 ms·

The consumer decides what they are prepared to pay for a product, unless the demand is inelastic. And for food overall, the demand is inelastic. Consumers canno

by clnq 4y ago

The consumer decides what they are prepared to pay for a product, unless the demand is inelastic. And for food overall, the demand is inelastic. Consumers cannot just say "food is too expensive for me, so I think I'm going to to go without it this month". They can choose between the individual products they buy, so it wouldn't be a problem if just some food items got expensive. But the price of food overall is inflating.

rcme 4y ago
Demand for food overall is inelastic, but the demand for specific foodstuffs is elastic. The measure of inflation we're discussing is across all foodstuffs.
- vanderZwan 4y ago
  Aren't you just confirming what they said?
  - sebzim4500 4y ago
    Not really, people could eat cheaper food. Not to mention that most people eat too many calories.
    - deusum 4y ago
      Expecting everyone to just give up meat and bread for rice and beans is nonsense. And eating too many calories is unhealthy, but who are you to decide. You're blaming the victim.
      - bryanlarsen 4y ago
        Steak consumption is down 20%. I presume hot dog consumption is up a similar amount.
        genocidicbunny 4y ago
        If the prices on hotdogs are like what I've seen at the store, no it is not. They're not priced quite like a steak, but it's close. And then you got the buns which are also like $5 for a 8-pack of the cheap store brand ones. A lot of the basic foodstuffs -- dry beans, grains, milk, eggs, flour -- have all gone up in price significantly. I've seen prices double over the last two years on some of these.
        bryanlarsen 4y ago
        They've gone up in price, but they still retain their status as the cheapest meat. The people who aren't buying steak are buying something else instead. In fact, I believe that the price of hot dogs have gone up more than the price of steak has. Yet people are still buying more hot dogs and less steak.
        temprose 4y ago
        You don't have to buy the buns lol. I remember using sliced bread instead of the buns because it's cheaper if you only use 1 slice to wrap the meat. I still see the $1.99 for a loaf of wonder bread or whatever it's called. That's plenty of slices for plenty of hot dogs lol.
    - deusum 4y ago
      And to add to that, these companies hide addictive processed sugars and additives in such you that can be psychologically if not physically dependent on things without realizing it.
    - gorbachev 4y ago
      Until due to increased demand that cheap food also becomes more expensive. It will happen.
    - clnq 4y ago
      This is an interesting point. It's definitely easy to switch to cheaper calories. Candy bars have high calorie counts and are cheap. Even today in the UK, you could buy 2000 kcal worth of candy bars for about £1.60. And the inflation will push some people toward such food choices. Maybe not that extreme, but switching to cheaper food generally means eating less nutritious food (unless you were over-spending), which is awful. Being pushed into single-digits spending on food daily isn't outside the realm of reality. £10 a day is about £305 a month. This is a lot of money for some vulnerable groups, like large single parent families, retirees, students, some young adults, and similar. The inflation also harms people's diets in a several ways: you must buy less food or less nutritious food for the same amount of money, and you have less money for food as other expenses have inflated. What is worse, less healthy food demand has long-term consequences to do with its supply going down and prices going up further.
      - slaymaker1907 4y ago
        What kind of candy bars are those? That's like 10 candy bars. A US Hershey bar is only 220 calories which is pretty standard for a candy bar. The real MVP for calories at minimum price is peanut butter. A bottle of Walmart peanut butter apparently goes for $2.18 currently and is 2880 calories total.
        jmercouris 4y ago
        I've been thinking about this for many years. I really think flour is the best ratio of calories to dollar. However, I've been unable to satisfactorily quantify the energy and time costs into equivalents. In Germany I'm able to buy 1kg of flour for about 50 euro cents at Edeka. I don't know how much bread that makes, but it is A LOT. I'm certain that it is significantly more than 2880 calories.
        acjacobson 4y ago
        Flour is clearly the winner vs. peanut butter when comparing price per calories. At Walmart.com it is $2.12 for a 5lb (2.26kg) bag which is about 8250 calories. But yeah, processing that into bread (home energy cost and time cost) is tough to calculate and probably depends on your situation. Still there are in-between options - pasta for instance is more bang for your buck than peanut butter and is much easier to prep yourself than bread.
    - zarzavat 4y ago
      Cheaper food is cheaper for a reason. The human body doesn’t just require calories. You need other nutrients too: protein, fat, vitamins and minerals. Usual advice is to eat a balanced diet, but that is expensive. Even eggs are expensive. If everybody starts eating even more trash than usual then that will cost the government more in healthcare costs.
      - __turbobrew__ 4y ago
        You can eat a balanced diet just off of canned food and rice. The fact that people expect to be able to eat fresh bell peppers in the middle of winter is the issue. Eating seasonal and preserved foods is how we survived before the age of refrigeration and global logistics chains and maybe we should reconsider what is normal.
        illiarian 4y ago
        > Eating seasonal and preserved foods is how we survived before the age of refrigeration and global logistics chains and maybe we should reconsider what is normal. That we survived doesn't mean we had a balanced diet.
illiarian 4y ago
> But the price of food overall is inflating. I'm a senior programmer with outrageous salary, and I still paused yesterday looking at the price of beef. Went for chicken instead. I wish inflation numbers would also include things like "percentage of income spent on just living: food and shelter"
- bcrosby95 4y ago
  I've been off beef for a long time now (family of 5). My grocery bill is $2k/month and my kids are still young. I can't imagine what it'll be when they're all teenagers.
- FpUser 4y ago
  I was buying a piece of tenderloin in Costco once a week. In a short time the average price went from about $150 to $200. I could still afford it but something in me cringe so I stopped buying it. That is in Canada
  - __turbobrew__ 4y ago
    Ground beef prices at Costco went up a boat load as well. Costco only sells things at most a 2% markup so Costco prices are a pretty good metric for inflation.
    - temprose 4y ago
      I love the fact that I can still get 2 dozen eggs for $6 at Costco, meanwhile it's like at least $5 a dozen anywhere else in NYC.
- nosianu 4y ago
  Looking at the conditions that "beef" is raised in - feedlots specifically - the price for beef is way too low. Of course it should be raised by laws requiring better living conditions for the animals, not by the operations staying the same but making more profit. Same for all kinds of meat really. I happily eat meat, and of the more pricey variety and not the cheapest I can get, but I'm willing to pay the price (and I'm not earning much) if the animals are treated better. If that also leads to meat being a side dish instead of the main dish more often that's probably for the better for overall population health too AFAIK.
nyerp 4y ago
> They can choose between the individual products they buy, so it wouldn't be a problem if just some food items got expensive. But the price of food overall is inflating. That is a false binary. You can still buy flour (or naan or pita), cheese and tomato sauce instead of pre-made pizzas, sacrificing your time against rising food costs. You can buy lentils instead of steak, sacrificing your preferences against rising food costs. Or you can travel further to a warehouse store and buy in bulk... When enough people act empowered in the face of adversity, we don't have to sweat "greedflation". Retailers will learn their lesson. Yes, I understand rising prices make life worse. But don't let anyone tell you there's nothing you can do about it. Learn to cook, change stores, eat differently, maybe even move. "My Pizza Pops went up 25%, I am powerless in the face of inflation!" Just no.
- pixl97 4y ago
  If flour, cheese, and tomato sauce also go up 25% what the shit is gained from your entire post? The people at the bottom of this still have issues buying food.
- WOTERMEON 4y ago
  Plain flour is more expensive
  - pjc50 4y ago
    Correct. Almost all flour-containing goods have a cheap version which is cheaper than making from scratch. Buying bread flour and making bread is usually a net economic negative, it's just something that people do for fun. The exception is maybe if you've got a good Indian supermarket and can buy at the 10-20kg range, then churn out a lot of chapattis.
- AlecSchueler 4y ago
  Now add working two labour intensive jobs and raising children into that mix. "Let them make cake"
- Kailhus 4y ago
  Ok so as an another commenter mentionned: 1. Spare time to cook food from scratch is a class thing. Most peeps have to work stupid hours. 2. To go to a warehouse and buy wholesale, you need #1 and make sure your petrol cost offset the savings which imho is absolutely unreasonable.
dangwhy 4y ago
But can't they switch to lower priced foods. I don't understand why its inelastic.Thats something I've done personally. Why does higher priced food keep inflating too if consumer has no control.
- jacquesm 4y ago
  > But can't they switch to lower priced foods. They could always eat cake.
  - dangwhy 4y ago
    whats this supposed ot mean
    - luckylion 4y ago
      It's how rich Western Europeans say that the poor will revolt unless socialism. It references something some French princess allegedly said who, when told the peasants don't have bread to eat, replied that they should eat cake instead. Some claim it as a sign of the royal disconnect that lead to the French Revolution.
      - dangwhy 4y ago
        i was talking about high priced food inflation which GP claimed consumers have no control over. Not sure how this would be relevant.
        luckylion 4y ago
        Apparently suggesting they buy raw ingredients instead of processed foods is the same as suggesting they eat cake if they don't have flour to make bread, because nobody likes the idea that consumers can adjust their choices.
        illiarian 4y ago
samstave 4y ago
Why do people keep using the term "inelastic", why not just say 'rigid', 'stiff', 'fixed', - I assume they are trying to state they dont ebb/flow?
- clnq 4y ago
  No, "inelastic demand" is a specific term in economics. It means that demand for a product does not change much or at all depending on its price. Think about bathroom tissue, tobacco and diesel. Whether the price goes up 20% or down 20%, about the same amount of the product will be sold. Elastic demand is the opposite. Some products have elastic demand, like luxuries and durables. An expensive car trim might be very price-sensitive because it is a luxury product. People will buy much fewer of those in austere times. They may buy fewer washing machines, too, because these products are durables. They are often bought "as an upgrade" or when one broke but could be repaired for cheaper.
88913527 4y ago
> Consumers cannot just say "food is too expensive for me, so I think I'm going to to go without it this month". One could be temporarily elastic, e.g. thaw meats from the freezer, eat shelf-stable food from the pantry. And in a few weeks, prices could be different and they do tend to bounce around week to week.

by clnq 4y ago

rcme 4y ago

Demand for food overall is inelastic, but the demand for specific foodstuffs is elastic. The measure of inflation we're discussing is across all foodstuffs.

vanderZwan 4y ago
Aren't you just confirming what they said?
- sebzim4500 4y ago
  Not really, people could eat cheaper food. Not to mention that most people eat too many calories.
  - deusum 4y ago
    Expecting everyone to just give up meat and bread for rice and beans is nonsense. And eating too many calories is unhealthy, but who are you to decide. You're blaming the victim.
    - bryanlarsen 4y ago
      Steak consumption is down 20%. I presume hot dog consumption is up a similar amount.
      - genocidicbunny 4y ago
        If the prices on hotdogs are like what I've seen at the store, no it is not. They're not priced quite like a steak, but it's close. And then you got the buns which are also like $5 for a 8-pack of the cheap store brand ones. A lot of the basic foodstuffs -- dry beans, grains, milk, eggs, flour -- have all gone up in price significantly. I've seen prices double over the last two years on some of these.
        bryanlarsen 4y ago
        They've gone up in price, but they still retain their status as the cheapest meat. The people who aren't buying steak are buying something else instead. In fact, I believe that the price of hot dogs have gone up more than the price of steak has. Yet people are still buying more hot dogs and less steak.
        temprose 4y ago
        You don't have to buy the buns lol. I remember using sliced bread instead of the buns because it's cheaper if you only use 1 slice to wrap the meat. I still see the $1.99 for a loaf of wonder bread or whatever it's called. That's plenty of slices for plenty of hot dogs lol.
  - deusum 4y ago
    And to add to that, these companies hide addictive processed sugars and additives in such you that can be psychologically if not physically dependent on things without realizing it.
  - gorbachev 4y ago
    Until due to increased demand that cheap food also becomes more expensive. It will happen.
  - clnq 4y ago
    This is an interesting point. It's definitely easy to switch to cheaper calories. Candy bars have high calorie counts and are cheap. Even today in the UK, you could buy 2000 kcal worth of candy bars for about £1.60. And the inflation will push some people toward such food choices. Maybe not that extreme, but switching to cheaper food generally means eating less nutritious food (unless you were over-spending), which is awful. Being pushed into single-digits spending on food daily isn't outside the realm of reality. £10 a day is about £305 a month. This is a lot of money for some vulnerable groups, like large single parent families, retirees, students, some young adults, and similar. The inflation also harms people's diets in a several ways: you must buy less food or less nutritious food for the same amount of money, and you have less money for food as other expenses have inflated. What is worse, less healthy food demand has long-term consequences to do with its supply going down and prices going up further.
    - slaymaker1907 4y ago
      What kind of candy bars are those? That's like 10 candy bars. A US Hershey bar is only 220 calories which is pretty standard for a candy bar. The real MVP for calories at minimum price is peanut butter. A bottle of Walmart peanut butter apparently goes for $2.18 currently and is 2880 calories total.
      - jmercouris 4y ago
        I've been thinking about this for many years. I really think flour is the best ratio of calories to dollar. However, I've been unable to satisfactorily quantify the energy and time costs into equivalents. In Germany I'm able to buy 1kg of flour for about 50 euro cents at Edeka. I don't know how much bread that makes, but it is A LOT. I'm certain that it is significantly more than 2880 calories.
        acjacobson 4y ago
        Flour is clearly the winner vs. peanut butter when comparing price per calories. At Walmart.com it is $2.12 for a 5lb (2.26kg) bag which is about 8250 calories. But yeah, processing that into bread (home energy cost and time cost) is tough to calculate and probably depends on your situation. Still there are in-between options - pasta for instance is more bang for your buck than peanut butter and is much easier to prep yourself than bread.
  - zarzavat 4y ago
    Cheaper food is cheaper for a reason. The human body doesn’t just require calories. You need other nutrients too: protein, fat, vitamins and minerals. Usual advice is to eat a balanced diet, but that is expensive. Even eggs are expensive. If everybody starts eating even more trash than usual then that will cost the government more in healthcare costs.
    - __turbobrew__ 4y ago
      You can eat a balanced diet just off of canned food and rice. The fact that people expect to be able to eat fresh bell peppers in the middle of winter is the issue. Eating seasonal and preserved foods is how we survived before the age of refrigeration and global logistics chains and maybe we should reconsider what is normal.
      - illiarian 4y ago
        > Eating seasonal and preserved foods is how we survived before the age of refrigeration and global logistics chains and maybe we should reconsider what is normal. That we survived doesn't mean we had a balanced diet.

illiarian 4y ago

> But the price of food overall is inflating. I'm a senior programmer with outrageous salary, and I still paused yesterday looking at the price of beef. Went for chicken instead. I wish inflation numbers would also include things like "percentage of income spent on just living: food and shelter"

bcrosby95 4y ago
I've been off beef for a long time now (family of 5). My grocery bill is $2k/month and my kids are still young. I can't imagine what it'll be when they're all teenagers.
FpUser 4y ago
I was buying a piece of tenderloin in Costco once a week. In a short time the average price went from about $150 to $200. I could still afford it but something in me cringe so I stopped buying it. That is in Canada
- __turbobrew__ 4y ago
  Ground beef prices at Costco went up a boat load as well. Costco only sells things at most a 2% markup so Costco prices are a pretty good metric for inflation.
  - temprose 4y ago
    I love the fact that I can still get 2 dozen eggs for $6 at Costco, meanwhile it's like at least $5 a dozen anywhere else in NYC.
nosianu 4y ago
Looking at the conditions that "beef" is raised in - feedlots specifically - the price for beef is way too low. Of course it should be raised by laws requiring better living conditions for the animals, not by the operations staying the same but making more profit. Same for all kinds of meat really. I happily eat meat, and of the more pricey variety and not the cheapest I can get, but I'm willing to pay the price (and I'm not earning much) if the animals are treated better. If that also leads to meat being a side dish instead of the main dish more often that's probably for the better for overall population health too AFAIK.

nyerp 4y ago

> They can choose between the individual products they buy, so it wouldn't be a problem if just some food items got expensive. But the price of food overall is inflating. That is a false binary. You can still buy flour (or naan or pita), cheese and tomato sauce instead of pre-made pizzas, sacrificing your time against rising food costs. You can buy lentils instead of steak, sacrificing your preferences against rising food costs. Or you can travel further to a warehouse store and buy in bulk... When enough people act empowered in the face of adversity, we don't have to sweat "greedflation". Retailers will learn their lesson. Yes, I understand rising prices make life worse. But don't let anyone tell you there's nothing you can do about it. Learn to cook, change stores, eat differently, maybe even move. "My Pizza Pops went up 25%, I am powerless in the face of inflation!" Just no.

pixl97 4y ago
If flour, cheese, and tomato sauce also go up 25% what the shit is gained from your entire post? The people at the bottom of this still have issues buying food.
WOTERMEON 4y ago
Plain flour is more expensive
- pjc50 4y ago
  Correct. Almost all flour-containing goods have a cheap version which is cheaper than making from scratch. Buying bread flour and making bread is usually a net economic negative, it's just something that people do for fun. The exception is maybe if you've got a good Indian supermarket and can buy at the 10-20kg range, then churn out a lot of chapattis.
AlecSchueler 4y ago
Now add working two labour intensive jobs and raising children into that mix. "Let them make cake"
Kailhus 4y ago
Ok so as an another commenter mentionned: 1. Spare time to cook food from scratch is a class thing. Most peeps have to work stupid hours. 2. To go to a warehouse and buy wholesale, you need #1 and make sure your petrol cost offset the savings which imho is absolutely unreasonable.

dangwhy 4y ago

But can't they switch to lower priced foods. I don't understand why its inelastic.Thats something I've done personally. Why does higher priced food keep inflating too if consumer has no control.

jacquesm 4y ago
> But can't they switch to lower priced foods. They could always eat cake.
- dangwhy 4y ago
  whats this supposed ot mean
  - luckylion 4y ago
    It's how rich Western Europeans say that the poor will revolt unless socialism. It references something some French princess allegedly said who, when told the peasants don't have bread to eat, replied that they should eat cake instead. Some claim it as a sign of the royal disconnect that lead to the French Revolution.
    - dangwhy 4y ago
      i was talking about high priced food inflation which GP claimed consumers have no control over. Not sure how this would be relevant.
      - luckylion 4y ago
        Apparently suggesting they buy raw ingredients instead of processed foods is the same as suggesting they eat cake if they don't have flour to make bread, because nobody likes the idea that consumers can adjust their choices.
        illiarian 4y ago

samstave 4y ago

Why do people keep using the term "inelastic", why not just say 'rigid', 'stiff', 'fixed', - I assume they are trying to state they dont ebb/flow?

clnq 4y ago
No, "inelastic demand" is a specific term in economics. It means that demand for a product does not change much or at all depending on its price. Think about bathroom tissue, tobacco and diesel. Whether the price goes up 20% or down 20%, about the same amount of the product will be sold. Elastic demand is the opposite. Some products have elastic demand, like luxuries and durables. An expensive car trim might be very price-sensitive because it is a luxury product. People will buy much fewer of those in austere times. They may buy fewer washing machines, too, because these products are durables. They are often bought "as an upgrade" or when one broke but could be repaired for cheaper.

88913527 4y ago

> Consumers cannot just say "food is too expensive for me, so I think I'm going to to go without it this month". One could be temporarily elastic, e.g. thaw meats from the freezer, eat shelf-stable food from the pantry. And in a few weeks, prices could be different and they do tend to bounce around week to week.