9 ms·

I don't want people borrowing money to buy corn flakes I am willing to pitch in to help that said, why would I not be surprised to find out many of these peop

I don't want people borrowing money to buy corn flakes I am willing to pitch in to help that said, why would I not be surprised to find out many of these people have a newer and more expensive phone than me? a nicer car? sorry for the cynicism but I've watched too many people in the drive-up food bank line in $80k pickups...we have a disconnect here

lettergram 4y ago
Lol what are credit cards? Most Americans buy now and pay later for everything. I don’t think it’s good, but that’s the truth.
- BizarreByte 4y ago
  It's good if you do it responsibly. If you put everything on a good rewards CC and pay it off soon after you will come out ahead.
  - lotsofpulp 4y ago
    The bar for “responsibly” is as low as it can get. It is just spending a few minutes to set up autopay on the credit card website, and acting like your credit card is a debit card.
    - NotYourLawyer 4y ago
      And having enough money that this never backfires.
      - notch898a 4y ago
        There are several (most?) credit cards you can settle it nightly if you like.
      - lotsofpulp 4y ago
        This is covered by > acting like your credit card is a debit card.
- Invictus0 4y ago
  Why pay for anything in cash if credit cards are giving 3% back + perks?
  - barbazoo 4y ago
    The whole not being part of the problem thing I'd say. We are all paying for those perks one way or another.
    - Invictus0 4y ago
      No "we" aren't. People paying with cash are paying for it.
- tekla 4y ago
  I get a 2-3% discount on everything with credit cards. There is literally no downside to using credit cards
  - docdeek 4y ago
    I suspect the downside to using credit cards comes when you don’t pay (or can’t pay) the bill during the interest free period or at the end of each month.
    - tekla 4y ago
      How is that different from not having the cash to buy something in the first place?
      - docdeek 4y ago
        It’s a downside to credit cards, as opposed to “no downsides” to credit cards.
        pb7 4y ago
        It's not a downside. The credit card didn't make you spend money you didn't have, you did.
      - jcranmer 4y ago
        If you are physically giving up cash, it is much easier to figure out if you have insufficient cash to make a purchase. With a credit card, it is less obvious to figure out that the balance on the card now exceeds the cash you have to pay it off. It can be done, true, but it requires a level of diligence that most people don't have.
        Jochim 4y ago
        Even people who do have that diligence can be caught out. You do the calculation, make the purchase and a week later encounter an unexpected expense like your car breaking down, or you lose your job. You may now find yourself unable to make the full repayment despite having thought about the purchase before making it.
- waboremo 4y ago
  It's not just Americans, the BNPL industry has seem tremendous growth around the world. China reports credit card usage quadrupling and alongside that BNPL schemes, Europe is expected to see the BNPL industry hit close to $1 trillion by 2028. It's a global phenomenon unfortunately.
  - r00fus 4y ago
    This is terrifying. Googling this definitely raised my stomach acid levels. Who holds all the debt?
    - StopHammoTime 4y ago
      Every single debt is underwritten individually by a originating bank. Within a few days the BNPL provider is expected to buy that debt back once the remittances to vendors have been made. The BNPL company then takes on the debt. BNPL makes their money by charging a network fee. AFAIK AfterPay charges about 7% and this is meant to cover the debt charges from the banks and administration fees.
  - chatmasta 4y ago
    I recently learned that Klarna is a Swedish company, and was founded in 2005 [0], which surprised me because I don't remember seeing it anywhere until the past ~5 years, when it started appearing as an option on nearly every checkout page. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Klarna https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Klarna
adamnemecek 4y ago
I highly doubt that.
gabereiser 4y ago
a lot of times those $80k pickup trucks are used by contractors that can write off the expense but still don't make enough to feed their kids and cover the mortgage. I know a few folks that do this. Their truck is a complete write off because they're contractors for construction or trade-labor. Sometimes its even company provided for the larger builders.
- arcticbull 4y ago
  The vast majority of the time those $80K pickup trucks are just people's daily drivers. > 75 percent of truck owners use their truck for towing one time a year or less (meaning, never). > Nearly 70 percent of truck owners go off-road one time a year or less. > And a full 35 percent of truck owners use their truck for hauling—putting something in the bed, its ostensible raison d’être—once a year or less. The F-150 is America's most popular passenger vehicle, and I'm pretty sure construction worker isn't America's most popular job :) [1] https://www.thedrive.com/news/26907/you-dont-need-a-full-size-pickup-truck-you-need-a-cowboy-costume https://www.thedrive.com/news/26907/you-dont-need-a-full-siz...
  - gabereiser 4y ago
    I don't dispute those stats, but it's not just construction workers. Every trademan I've used in the last 20 years has shown up in an F-150 or bigger. Normally to transport their tools in the box or bed. Most folks I know that have a truck of this size, that's the reason. You can't fit a pressure washer in a civic. I do recognize that a lot of folks buy it because the false sense of safety or for "rolling coal and sticking it to hippies".
    - arcticbull 4y ago
      Apologies if I was unclear, I 100% expect that every tradesperson has an F-150+ and that they are a business expense! I was intending that to be additive.
      - gabereiser 4y ago
ye-olde-sysrq 4y ago
It's worth noting that since we've been in a near-zero interest rate environment for a long time, servicing $80k of debt was comparatively very easy, especially when car makers dealers were desperate to keep selling more and more cars even if the loans were going to be hot garbage. So it's very possible that these people managed to drive off the lot with that car without putting barely anything out-of-pocket.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
giraffe_lady 4y ago
"A judge is one thing an almsgiver is another." If you want to help help, if you don't don't. What you're doing here is the worst of both basically.
thwayunion 4y ago
I can't remember the last time I paid for groceries with anything other than a credit card. Or even saw someone else pay for groceries with plastic, which is hopefully CC or EBT since using debit cards at POS is kind of risky.
yeahsure22 4y ago
[dead]
Jochim 4y ago
Some of them might. Those commitments may have been affordable at the time. There's not much you can if your situation changes once you owe the money.
PuppyTailWags 4y ago
If I just got a new phone and then lost my job what's wrong with me going to the food bank? If I just got a nice car and then had to get helicopter'd (out of network so I have to eat the full cost) for a medical emergency, what's wrong with me going to the food bank? I don't want to be in line. I don't want to be publicly seen unable to afford food.
- notch898a 4y ago
  Nothing, please just don't be the guy I saw with a brand new car literally clearing out the unattended "little food bank" stand to sell stuff on facebook marketplace (while audibly complaining about the low value of the DVDs also placed in there). Sadly when I see the new car kind of people that seems to be what they're doing.
xboxnolifes 4y ago
Because of loans and human Psych. I'm becoming more and more convinced that easy access to loans (Buy now, pay later) is too dangerous for the social part of society, assuming we also want to protect those who abuse them from their own actions. They seem to only marginally help those who already have money, but frequently negatively impact those who either don't have money or just make very bad financial decisions.

lettergram 4y ago

Lol what are credit cards? Most Americans buy now and pay later for everything. I don’t think it’s good, but that’s the truth.

BizarreByte 4y ago
It's good if you do it responsibly. If you put everything on a good rewards CC and pay it off soon after you will come out ahead.
- lotsofpulp 4y ago
  The bar for “responsibly” is as low as it can get. It is just spending a few minutes to set up autopay on the credit card website, and acting like your credit card is a debit card.
  - NotYourLawyer 4y ago
    And having enough money that this never backfires.
    - notch898a 4y ago
      There are several (most?) credit cards you can settle it nightly if you like.
    - lotsofpulp 4y ago
      This is covered by > acting like your credit card is a debit card.
Invictus0 4y ago
Why pay for anything in cash if credit cards are giving 3% back + perks?
- barbazoo 4y ago
  The whole not being part of the problem thing I'd say. We are all paying for those perks one way or another.
  - Invictus0 4y ago
    No "we" aren't. People paying with cash are paying for it.
tekla 4y ago
I get a 2-3% discount on everything with credit cards. There is literally no downside to using credit cards
- docdeek 4y ago
  I suspect the downside to using credit cards comes when you don’t pay (or can’t pay) the bill during the interest free period or at the end of each month.
  - tekla 4y ago
    How is that different from not having the cash to buy something in the first place?
    - docdeek 4y ago
      It’s a downside to credit cards, as opposed to “no downsides” to credit cards.
      - pb7 4y ago
        It's not a downside. The credit card didn't make you spend money you didn't have, you did.
    - jcranmer 4y ago
      If you are physically giving up cash, it is much easier to figure out if you have insufficient cash to make a purchase. With a credit card, it is less obvious to figure out that the balance on the card now exceeds the cash you have to pay it off. It can be done, true, but it requires a level of diligence that most people don't have.
      - Jochim 4y ago
        Even people who do have that diligence can be caught out. You do the calculation, make the purchase and a week later encounter an unexpected expense like your car breaking down, or you lose your job. You may now find yourself unable to make the full repayment despite having thought about the purchase before making it.
waboremo 4y ago
It's not just Americans, the BNPL industry has seem tremendous growth around the world. China reports credit card usage quadrupling and alongside that BNPL schemes, Europe is expected to see the BNPL industry hit close to $1 trillion by 2028. It's a global phenomenon unfortunately.
- r00fus 4y ago
  This is terrifying. Googling this definitely raised my stomach acid levels. Who holds all the debt?
  - StopHammoTime 4y ago
    Every single debt is underwritten individually by a originating bank. Within a few days the BNPL provider is expected to buy that debt back once the remittances to vendors have been made. The BNPL company then takes on the debt. BNPL makes their money by charging a network fee. AFAIK AfterPay charges about 7% and this is meant to cover the debt charges from the banks and administration fees.
- chatmasta 4y ago
  I recently learned that Klarna is a Swedish company, and was founded in 2005 [0], which surprised me because I don't remember seeing it anywhere until the past ~5 years, when it started appearing as an option on nearly every checkout page. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Klarna https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Klarna

adamnemecek 4y ago

I highly doubt that.

gabereiser 4y ago

a lot of times those $80k pickup trucks are used by contractors that can write off the expense but still don't make enough to feed their kids and cover the mortgage. I know a few folks that do this. Their truck is a complete write off because they're contractors for construction or trade-labor. Sometimes its even company provided for the larger builders.

arcticbull 4y ago
The vast majority of the time those $80K pickup trucks are just people's daily drivers. > 75 percent of truck owners use their truck for towing one time a year or less (meaning, never). > Nearly 70 percent of truck owners go off-road one time a year or less. > And a full 35 percent of truck owners use their truck for hauling—putting something in the bed, its ostensible raison d’être—once a year or less. The F-150 is America's most popular passenger vehicle, and I'm pretty sure construction worker isn't America's most popular job :) [1] https://www.thedrive.com/news/26907/you-dont-need-a-full-size-pickup-truck-you-need-a-cowboy-costume https://www.thedrive.com/news/26907/you-dont-need-a-full-siz...
- gabereiser 4y ago
  I don't dispute those stats, but it's not just construction workers. Every trademan I've used in the last 20 years has shown up in an F-150 or bigger. Normally to transport their tools in the box or bed. Most folks I know that have a truck of this size, that's the reason. You can't fit a pressure washer in a civic. I do recognize that a lot of folks buy it because the false sense of safety or for "rolling coal and sticking it to hippies".
  - arcticbull 4y ago
    Apologies if I was unclear, I 100% expect that every tradesperson has an F-150+ and that they are a business expense! I was intending that to be additive.
    - gabereiser 4y ago

ye-olde-sysrq 4y ago

It's worth noting that since we've been in a near-zero interest rate environment for a long time, servicing $80k of debt was comparatively very easy, especially when car makers dealers were desperate to keep selling more and more cars even if the loans were going to be hot garbage. So it's very possible that these people managed to drive off the lot with that car without putting barely anything out-of-pocket.

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]

giraffe_lady 4y ago

"A judge is one thing an almsgiver is another." If you want to help help, if you don't don't. What you're doing here is the worst of both basically.

thwayunion 4y ago

I can't remember the last time I paid for groceries with anything other than a credit card. Or even saw someone else pay for groceries with plastic, which is hopefully CC or EBT since using debit cards at POS is kind of risky.

yeahsure22 4y ago

[dead]

Jochim 4y ago

Some of them might. Those commitments may have been affordable at the time. There's not much you can if your situation changes once you owe the money.

PuppyTailWags 4y ago

If I just got a new phone and then lost my job what's wrong with me going to the food bank? If I just got a nice car and then had to get helicopter'd (out of network so I have to eat the full cost) for a medical emergency, what's wrong with me going to the food bank? I don't want to be in line. I don't want to be publicly seen unable to afford food.

notch898a 4y ago
Nothing, please just don't be the guy I saw with a brand new car literally clearing out the unattended "little food bank" stand to sell stuff on facebook marketplace (while audibly complaining about the low value of the DVDs also placed in there). Sadly when I see the new car kind of people that seems to be what they're doing.

xboxnolifes 4y ago

Because of loans and human Psych. I'm becoming more and more convinced that easy access to loans (Buy now, pay later) is too dangerous for the social part of society, assuming we also want to protect those who abuse them from their own actions. They seem to only marginally help those who already have money, but frequently negatively impact those who either don't have money or just make very bad financial decisions.