8 ms·

Anyone here can explain why is Peter Thiel so dedicated to conservatism and the culture war? I don't get how bankrolling people who actively support policies t

Anyone here can explain why is Peter Thiel so dedicated to conservatism and the culture war? I don't get how bankrolling people who actively support policies that hurt minorities (like the LGBT community) can bring any upside to him. What is his endgame here?

junon 4y ago
He's immune to any sort of impacts of such policies. I say this having been loosely associated with that circle of people for a short time several years back.
- xiaolingxiao 4y ago
  Would you be willing to expand on thst?
  - junon 4y ago
    No, sorry. My time there is not something that needs to be shared publicly.
michael1999 4y ago
The man believes what he believes, and has sex the way he has sex. Lots of fascists are gay. It’s a whole trope.
- cinntaile 4y ago
  A lot of people seem convinced he's a fascist but where is the actual evidence?
  - xenospn 4y ago
    When someone shows you who they are, believe them the first time. Have you seen who he bankrolls?
    - cinntaile 4y ago
      Your comment also doesn't contain any evidence.
  - n4r9 4y ago
    This article by John Ganz presents possibly the most comprehensive argument - https://johnganz.substack.com/p/the-enigma-of-peter-thiel https://johnganz.substack.com/p/the-enigma-of-peter-thiel > So, let’s sum up. Peter Thiel believes he belongs to an elite group, often understood in implicitly or explicitly racial terms, that is entitled to set aside democratic governance in favor of pursuing a program of technological progress and national restoration. He believes the political means to accomplish this is through a charismatic leader with manipulative, populist appeals to past national glory and against parasitic immigrants and culturally decadent liberalism. For him, even the most milquetoast, reformist liberalism is “tantamount to communism.” He’s obsessed with romanticized fantasies of absolute power, domination, and control. He dreams of wielding the the national security state against enemies both foreign and domestic. He envisioned a kind of imperialist world-state controlled not through deliberative bodies like the U.N. but directly by the intelligence and secret police bureaus. He combines the ideology of white collar, petit-bourgeois intermediary class with its emphases direct management techniques and closely-held ownership with the grandiose, world-spanning designs of an industrial titan. There’s really no contradiction within Peter Thiel’s politics, they are quite consistent: he’s just realized, more clearly than his opponents often, that there’s ultimately a contradiction between the rule of capital and democracy, and the way to deal with this contradiction, as far as he’s concerned, is to do away with democracy.
  - red-iron-pine 4y ago
    Search for "dark enlightenment" -- Pete has a lot of uncomfortable connections to reactionary theorists. See also: Frederick The Great, who was power hungry, belligerent, effective, and gay as hell. That whole Prussian discipline thing? Oh yeah, basically ramped up to 11 with Fred. Aside from loving opera and fashion, he also was all about large men and large horses.
  - lisasays 4y ago
    It's probably more accurate to call him a "fellow traveler". That is, he isn't someone who espouses the ideology of fascism outright. But he's definitely willing to walk down same road with those who are much more clearly and visibly on the fascistoid spectrum (such as the candidate he supported for president in 2016 and 2020) in order to advance his own goals. All while being smart enough to understand the sociopolitical landscape, the parallels to history and all that.
fruzz 4y ago
The policies that hurt minorities aren't any policy he's personally affected by, thanks to his wealth and age. His wealth also insulates him from experiences that would foster empathy in others. Meanwhile, conservative policies favour those who have a lot of money, like him.
costanzaDynasty 4y ago
The answer to all your questions is money.
lapcat 4y ago
Why is anyone dedicated to an ideology? It's not a means to a different end, it's an end in itself. As far as any personal inconsistency is concerned, humans are naturally inconsistent, and give themselves exceptions to their professed rules.
tdehnel 4y ago
I'm going to try and explain how I understand Peter Thiel's worldview here, which I've learned from listening to him talk and reading what he writes. You can downvote this all you want, but I believe it's an accurate interpretation. I'll try to keep my own opinions out of it. To understand Thiel's position, you have to broaden your idea of harm past immediate harm to a single group of people. While I'm sure Thiel has personal economic concerns, his stated primary moral concern is preventing wealth redistribution, socialism, and the mass-scale violence that those programs have caused in the past. You can choose to believe him as to whether this is his true motivation or not, but you asked for an explanation of this worldview and that's what he's stuck with over 10+ years now. While you might be more worried about Nazis, Thiel is more worried about things like 1905 and 1917 Russian revolutions, the ensuing Red Terror, and mass starvation/poverty. About 20M people died in Russia during this time, mostly from starvation but up to 200,000 dead by being executed by the state for having the wrong political beliefs. And many more during the various violent uprisings and civil wars. Some of you reading this are going to huff and just disregard it, but for Thiel, preventing potential massive tragedy in the future is likely worth a tradeoff of some people being "harmed" now. Edit: the number of replies to your comment which basically amount to "he just doesn't care about others/he's rich so he's evil" indicate that even the Hacker News audience is not immune to believing in lazy explanations and supernatural forces. Google "The Myth of Pure Evil" for more on this.
- lapcat 4y ago
  "At San Mateo High School, he read Ayn Rand, admired the optimism and anti-communism of then-President Ronald Reagan" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Thiel#Early_life_and_education https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Thiel#Early_life_and_edu...
- lazyeye 4y ago
  It's a mystery to me how those on the left get to spend so much time focusing on the threat of nazism whilst completely ignoring their own horrific history. I dont know how they get away with it.
  - lapcat 4y ago
boeingUH60 4y ago
Thiel is a multi-billionaire, so the same rules don't apply to him as the masses. Even the most anti-LGBT politicians will fawn over you if you have such money and power despite being what they supposedly detest.
- mcv 4y ago
  The article even quotes on of Thiel's bought politicians who came to his wedding despite opposing gay marriage. The whole thing seems utterly contradictory to me, but clearly principles are flexible when money and power are concerned.
  - 1337biz 4y ago
    You have to take another moral compass that reflects the personal reality. For example someone can be super supportive and volunteer to help immigrants. But on the other hand support hardcore anti-immigrant regulation. Why? Because he realises that people are selfish and he would act in the immigrants situation the same opportunistic way thus feels sympathy. But at the same way sees opportunistic immigration is a mayor problem for society thus supports hard regulation. That way leads to situations where you are personal friends with people that you on a systemic level attack, without having a true moral conflict.
LispSporks22 4y ago
I personally can't see how, but somehow he must have found a profitable angle.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
eli_gottlieb 4y ago
Simple: Thiel unironically believes in techno-feudalism and is willing to work with anti-LGBT forces to bring it about as an alternative to whatever the heck Barack Obama and Joe Biden have been doing.
DesiLurker 4y ago
In my mind there are broadly 2 types of conservatives, the rich self interest conservatives and the regular social issues conservatives. the rich have figured out a pretty efficient way of feeding the regular conservatives things that dont cost them money (like religion, guns, immigration, minorities etc) in exchange of things that make them money & power. it almost always boils down to that calculation. religion is easy way to keep masses in check and divert their attention on-demand.
xrd 4y ago
My theory is this is a distraction tactic. These are real issues for real people, but Thiel feels that there are bigger issues that he can't make traction on with the Democratic party. So he funds outrageous candidates and they push culture war narratives and don't do anything other than rile up both bases. I am asserting that Trump was ineffective, his cabinet turnover was unprecedented, and maybe that's why Thiel lost interest the second time around. But Thiel feels that doing nothing by the Republicans is better than the something that Democrats do. He's just running interference for progress by the other party, progress which he feels is detrimental.
- firstlink 4y ago
  What most HN commenters won't believe is you've just described 80% of republican voters.
- theGnuMe 4y ago
  I mean this is the standard Republican playbook. You missed tax cuts and well cronyism. However, Thiel needs defense contracts and wants to be a power broker of political power. For that he needs to get congressional reps and senators. Trump and the tea party MAGAs are a way to get that influence since it is a "new world order" and displaces Koch and Murdoch as the principal power brokers. The reason Tucker is so pro-Trump is because Murdoch wants to keep his power. The pro-Putin stance is also a direct play to the MAGAs which is an evolution of the get the US out of Nato crap.
Jackevansevo 4y ago
He's a nutter
inparen 4y ago
Everyone, ignoring reality, has the view that this is how the world should be. Of course, if you have money and power, you work to influence (enforce?) it in whatever way you can.
1337biz 4y ago
For me his behaviour makes sense. I act in similar ways, as it shows that the person has higher moral standards than he can fulfil himself. He knows that his lifestyle is not according to his ideals, but to compensate this he funds initiatives that support those. Its basically carbon trading morality. And just because you can't live up to your own moral standards does not mean you see the point that these should be changed.

junon 4y ago

He's immune to any sort of impacts of such policies. I say this having been loosely associated with that circle of people for a short time several years back.

xiaolingxiao 4y ago
Would you be willing to expand on thst?
- junon 4y ago
  No, sorry. My time there is not something that needs to be shared publicly.

michael1999 4y ago

The man believes what he believes, and has sex the way he has sex. Lots of fascists are gay. It’s a whole trope.

cinntaile 4y ago
A lot of people seem convinced he's a fascist but where is the actual evidence?
- xenospn 4y ago
  When someone shows you who they are, believe them the first time. Have you seen who he bankrolls?
  - cinntaile 4y ago
    Your comment also doesn't contain any evidence.
- n4r9 4y ago
  This article by John Ganz presents possibly the most comprehensive argument - https://johnganz.substack.com/p/the-enigma-of-peter-thiel https://johnganz.substack.com/p/the-enigma-of-peter-thiel > So, let’s sum up. Peter Thiel believes he belongs to an elite group, often understood in implicitly or explicitly racial terms, that is entitled to set aside democratic governance in favor of pursuing a program of technological progress and national restoration. He believes the political means to accomplish this is through a charismatic leader with manipulative, populist appeals to past national glory and against parasitic immigrants and culturally decadent liberalism. For him, even the most milquetoast, reformist liberalism is “tantamount to communism.” He’s obsessed with romanticized fantasies of absolute power, domination, and control. He dreams of wielding the the national security state against enemies both foreign and domestic. He envisioned a kind of imperialist world-state controlled not through deliberative bodies like the U.N. but directly by the intelligence and secret police bureaus. He combines the ideology of white collar, petit-bourgeois intermediary class with its emphases direct management techniques and closely-held ownership with the grandiose, world-spanning designs of an industrial titan. There’s really no contradiction within Peter Thiel’s politics, they are quite consistent: he’s just realized, more clearly than his opponents often, that there’s ultimately a contradiction between the rule of capital and democracy, and the way to deal with this contradiction, as far as he’s concerned, is to do away with democracy.
- red-iron-pine 4y ago
  Search for "dark enlightenment" -- Pete has a lot of uncomfortable connections to reactionary theorists. See also: Frederick The Great, who was power hungry, belligerent, effective, and gay as hell. That whole Prussian discipline thing? Oh yeah, basically ramped up to 11 with Fred. Aside from loving opera and fashion, he also was all about large men and large horses.
- lisasays 4y ago
  It's probably more accurate to call him a "fellow traveler". That is, he isn't someone who espouses the ideology of fascism outright. But he's definitely willing to walk down same road with those who are much more clearly and visibly on the fascistoid spectrum (such as the candidate he supported for president in 2016 and 2020) in order to advance his own goals. All while being smart enough to understand the sociopolitical landscape, the parallels to history and all that.

fruzz 4y ago

The policies that hurt minorities aren't any policy he's personally affected by, thanks to his wealth and age. His wealth also insulates him from experiences that would foster empathy in others. Meanwhile, conservative policies favour those who have a lot of money, like him.

costanzaDynasty 4y ago

The answer to all your questions is money.

lapcat 4y ago

Why is anyone dedicated to an ideology? It's not a means to a different end, it's an end in itself. As far as any personal inconsistency is concerned, humans are naturally inconsistent, and give themselves exceptions to their professed rules.

tdehnel 4y ago

I'm going to try and explain how I understand Peter Thiel's worldview here, which I've learned from listening to him talk and reading what he writes. You can downvote this all you want, but I believe it's an accurate interpretation. I'll try to keep my own opinions out of it. To understand Thiel's position, you have to broaden your idea of harm past immediate harm to a single group of people. While I'm sure Thiel has personal economic concerns, his stated primary moral concern is preventing wealth redistribution, socialism, and the mass-scale violence that those programs have caused in the past. You can choose to believe him as to whether this is his true motivation or not, but you asked for an explanation of this worldview and that's what he's stuck with over 10+ years now. While you might be more worried about Nazis, Thiel is more worried about things like 1905 and 1917 Russian revolutions, the ensuing Red Terror, and mass starvation/poverty. About 20M people died in Russia during this time, mostly from starvation but up to 200,000 dead by being executed by the state for having the wrong political beliefs. And many more during the various violent uprisings and civil wars. Some of you reading this are going to huff and just disregard it, but for Thiel, preventing potential massive tragedy in the future is likely worth a tradeoff of some people being "harmed" now. Edit: the number of replies to your comment which basically amount to "he just doesn't care about others/he's rich so he's evil" indicate that even the Hacker News audience is not immune to believing in lazy explanations and supernatural forces. Google "The Myth of Pure Evil" for more on this.

lapcat 4y ago
"At San Mateo High School, he read Ayn Rand, admired the optimism and anti-communism of then-President Ronald Reagan" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Thiel#Early_life_and_education https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Thiel#Early_life_and_edu...
lazyeye 4y ago
It's a mystery to me how those on the left get to spend so much time focusing on the threat of nazism whilst completely ignoring their own horrific history. I dont know how they get away with it.
- lapcat 4y ago

boeingUH60 4y ago

Thiel is a multi-billionaire, so the same rules don't apply to him as the masses. Even the most anti-LGBT politicians will fawn over you if you have such money and power despite being what they supposedly detest.

mcv 4y ago
The article even quotes on of Thiel's bought politicians who came to his wedding despite opposing gay marriage. The whole thing seems utterly contradictory to me, but clearly principles are flexible when money and power are concerned.
- 1337biz 4y ago
  You have to take another moral compass that reflects the personal reality. For example someone can be super supportive and volunteer to help immigrants. But on the other hand support hardcore anti-immigrant regulation. Why? Because he realises that people are selfish and he would act in the immigrants situation the same opportunistic way thus feels sympathy. But at the same way sees opportunistic immigration is a mayor problem for society thus supports hard regulation. That way leads to situations where you are personal friends with people that you on a systemic level attack, without having a true moral conflict.

LispSporks22 4y ago

I personally can't see how, but somehow he must have found a profitable angle.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

eli_gottlieb 4y ago

Simple: Thiel unironically believes in techno-feudalism and is willing to work with anti-LGBT forces to bring it about as an alternative to whatever the heck Barack Obama and Joe Biden have been doing.

DesiLurker 4y ago

In my mind there are broadly 2 types of conservatives, the rich self interest conservatives and the regular social issues conservatives. the rich have figured out a pretty efficient way of feeding the regular conservatives things that dont cost them money (like religion, guns, immigration, minorities etc) in exchange of things that make them money & power. it almost always boils down to that calculation. religion is easy way to keep masses in check and divert their attention on-demand.

xrd 4y ago

My theory is this is a distraction tactic. These are real issues for real people, but Thiel feels that there are bigger issues that he can't make traction on with the Democratic party. So he funds outrageous candidates and they push culture war narratives and don't do anything other than rile up both bases. I am asserting that Trump was ineffective, his cabinet turnover was unprecedented, and maybe that's why Thiel lost interest the second time around. But Thiel feels that doing nothing by the Republicans is better than the something that Democrats do. He's just running interference for progress by the other party, progress which he feels is detrimental.

firstlink 4y ago
What most HN commenters won't believe is you've just described 80% of republican voters.
theGnuMe 4y ago
I mean this is the standard Republican playbook. You missed tax cuts and well cronyism. However, Thiel needs defense contracts and wants to be a power broker of political power. For that he needs to get congressional reps and senators. Trump and the tea party MAGAs are a way to get that influence since it is a "new world order" and displaces Koch and Murdoch as the principal power brokers. The reason Tucker is so pro-Trump is because Murdoch wants to keep his power. The pro-Putin stance is also a direct play to the MAGAs which is an evolution of the get the US out of Nato crap.

Jackevansevo 4y ago

He's a nutter

inparen 4y ago

Everyone, ignoring reality, has the view that this is how the world should be. Of course, if you have money and power, you work to influence (enforce?) it in whatever way you can.

1337biz 4y ago

For me his behaviour makes sense. I act in similar ways, as it shows that the person has higher moral standards than he can fulfil himself. He knows that his lifestyle is not according to his ideals, but to compensate this he funds initiatives that support those. Its basically carbon trading morality. And just because you can't live up to your own moral standards does not mean you see the point that these should be changed.