6 ms·

Playing with configurator what surprise me is that a Windows 11 Pro licence cost 259 Euro. Micro$oft still make a lot of money with windonws =)

by fbn79 4y ago

reisse 4y ago
I wonder, do they sell retail licence or re-sell OEM licence at retail price? Anyway, I'm not sure if anyone really buys Windows at retail prices. Enterprise (subscription) and OEM costs are much lower, and for personal use you can buy OEM keys off eBay or AliExpress for a few bucks.
- dijit 4y ago
  License costs are weird. The opaqueness of Windows licensing for "pro" devices makes us assume that there are heavy discounts, which massively depends on the manufacturer- framework could not be at a size that gives them preferential pricing (even if we assume that licensing is cheaper for other companies). I can say that it is more ordinary for end users to get discounts rather than OEMs, unless there is a lot of negotiation (including bundling crapware, as we well know) in the tech industry when it comes to bulk licensing.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
- vbezhenar 4y ago
  > for personal use you can buy OEM keys off eBay or AliExpress for a few bucks. Is it legal? If it's not, isn't it easier to just use crack? E.g. pirate KMS server.
  - jacooper 4y ago
    Gray market
  - GuB-42 4y ago
    It is not legal, but the advantage is that you don't have to deal with shady software like that pirate KMS server. Even though it is a breach of contract because it is not how these licences are supposed to be used, it is still recognized as genuine by Microsoft, so you get all the updates, etc... You may get your license revoked it the seller get caught and as a result, you may need to get a new one. As an individual, you are extremely unlikely to get into more trouble (same thing as with cracked software), but I wouldn't use these licenses as a business.
    - messe 4y ago
      I was under the impression that reselling keys can be legal in the EU (at least in some circumstances)?
      - nix23 4y ago
        [dead]
    - richthegeek 4y ago
      If the breach of contract is by the seller, then how does that result in illegality on the part of the buyer?
      - GuB-42 4y ago
        I don't think it is illegal on the part of the buyer, who would be a victim in this situation. But just like buying counterfeit goods, it is not clear to me, I mean if you buy your key from AliExpress, isn't it like importing counterfeits from China? That's something one should ask a lawyer. Anyways, these keys can be revoked any moment (and it has happened to me, with an Office key). If I had a business, I would avoid them for that reason alone.
      - otikik 4y ago
        Well now that you have read this forum thread and responded to it that’s proof that you knew that was a possibility at least. You can’t claim “lack of knowledge” if you do it and Microsoft comes for you. But I am not a lawyer, perhaps on this case that doesn’t matter.
- vetinari 4y ago
  Interesting bit, that many people miss: The enteprise windows license is not "standalone", you cannot use it with any device. You may use it only with device, that came with valid OEM or retail license.
RGamma 4y ago
I bought mine for like 4 bucks. Digital license linked to my account :>
- drapado 4y ago
  Care to explain how?
  - RGamma 4y ago
    Got it from an independent license vendor (https://www.license4you.de/windows-11-pro-neu?number=ID-100507 https://www.license4you.de/windows-11-pro-neu?number=ID-1005..., but there's several). I have no idea how they get the keys (probably OEM) and whether this is actually kosher (and I don't wanna know) but I did this with Win 10 some years ago as well and it has worked out thus far. Just pay with e.g. PP and they'll send you the key via e-mail.
  - williamvds 4y ago
    Grey market key resellers, apparently using volume licensing. It's a roll of the dice whether they'll stay valid, possibly because the same key is resold repeatedly, or Microsoft blacklists them.
pbhjpbhj 4y ago
So if I buy a computer with Win 11 then I can claim €259 back as long as I wrote it and install Linux? Isn't that how things worked before with Windows-tax automatically applied to all retail computers in major chain stores? That clearly won't work, as one could get free computers ... but what is the situation in getting reimbursements of Windows-tax?
- dagw 4y ago
  So if I buy a computer with Win 11 then I can claim €259 back Anybody else remember Windows Refund Day? Some OEMs actually did offer a refund of around $30-50, which was the cost of an OEM license at the time. Although many court cases around the world have since then ruled that you don't have a right to claim a refund for unused OEM licenses.
  - nicolaslem 4y ago
    Yes, I got my Windows license refunded years ago. AFAIK it was not simply getting a refund for something unused, but rather the fact that the hardware and the software were two distinct products that were bundled together without the consumer having a say.
- nrp 4y ago
  We have the Framework Laptop DIY Edition that ships without an OS or OS license specifically to make sure folks don’t have to do this and can bring the OS that they want.
ChuckNorris89 4y ago
>what surprise me is that a Windows 11 Pro licence cost 259 Euro. Micro$oft still make a lot of money with windonws =) Not really. Windows 11 Pro retail is $199 today which might sound steep but in comparison Windows XP Pro retail was $299 in 2001 which adjusted for inflation would be $500 today. Ouch! Windows 95 retailed at a whopping $205 in '95 or ~$400 in today's money, while a retail Win 11 Home is $139 now. So Windows has actually gotten massively cheaper, which is weird considering that OS complexity, update frequency has increased and SW dev salaries and expenses have gone up since then.
- flatiron 4y ago
  They make money on OS ads now to subsidize the cost
  - ChuckNorris89 4y ago
    That and no more customer support to pay for. Plus, the consumer prices are probably subsidized by the massive volumes in OEM licenses and O365 subscriptions.
    - okasaki 4y ago
      Microsoft never had customer support. If you had a problem you either called your grandson or took it to the local computer repair shop. Maybe you mean QA testers.
- Otek 4y ago
  But Microsoft is making now money from tracking and they didn’t do that in ‘95
vhodges 4y ago
You want to look at the DIY options (it's not terribly hard to install the RAM and storage), for no Windows tax.

Playing with configurator what surprise me is that a Windows 11 Pro licence cost 259 Euro. Micro$oft still make a lot of money with windonws =)

by fbn79 4y ago

Playing with configurator what surprise me is that a Windows 11 Pro licence cost 259 Euro. Micro$oft still make a lot of money with windonws =)

reisse 4y ago

I wonder, do they sell retail licence or re-sell OEM licence at retail price? Anyway, I'm not sure if anyone really buys Windows at retail prices. Enterprise (subscription) and OEM costs are much lower, and for personal use you can buy OEM keys off eBay or AliExpress for a few bucks.

dijit 4y ago
License costs are weird. The opaqueness of Windows licensing for "pro" devices makes us assume that there are heavy discounts, which massively depends on the manufacturer- framework could not be at a size that gives them preferential pricing (even if we assume that licensing is cheaper for other companies). I can say that it is more ordinary for end users to get discounts rather than OEMs, unless there is a lot of negotiation (including bundling crapware, as we well know) in the tech industry when it comes to bulk licensing.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
vbezhenar 4y ago
> for personal use you can buy OEM keys off eBay or AliExpress for a few bucks. Is it legal? If it's not, isn't it easier to just use crack? E.g. pirate KMS server.
- jacooper 4y ago
  Gray market
- GuB-42 4y ago
  It is not legal, but the advantage is that you don't have to deal with shady software like that pirate KMS server. Even though it is a breach of contract because it is not how these licences are supposed to be used, it is still recognized as genuine by Microsoft, so you get all the updates, etc... You may get your license revoked it the seller get caught and as a result, you may need to get a new one. As an individual, you are extremely unlikely to get into more trouble (same thing as with cracked software), but I wouldn't use these licenses as a business.
  - messe 4y ago
    I was under the impression that reselling keys can be legal in the EU (at least in some circumstances)?
    - nix23 4y ago
      [dead]
  - richthegeek 4y ago
    If the breach of contract is by the seller, then how does that result in illegality on the part of the buyer?
    - GuB-42 4y ago
      I don't think it is illegal on the part of the buyer, who would be a victim in this situation. But just like buying counterfeit goods, it is not clear to me, I mean if you buy your key from AliExpress, isn't it like importing counterfeits from China? That's something one should ask a lawyer. Anyways, these keys can be revoked any moment (and it has happened to me, with an Office key). If I had a business, I would avoid them for that reason alone.
    - otikik 4y ago
      Well now that you have read this forum thread and responded to it that’s proof that you knew that was a possibility at least. You can’t claim “lack of knowledge” if you do it and Microsoft comes for you. But I am not a lawyer, perhaps on this case that doesn’t matter.
vetinari 4y ago
Interesting bit, that many people miss: The enteprise windows license is not "standalone", you cannot use it with any device. You may use it only with device, that came with valid OEM or retail license.

RGamma 4y ago

I bought mine for like 4 bucks. Digital license linked to my account :>

drapado 4y ago
Care to explain how?
- RGamma 4y ago
  Got it from an independent license vendor (https://www.license4you.de/windows-11-pro-neu?number=ID-100507 https://www.license4you.de/windows-11-pro-neu?number=ID-1005..., but there's several). I have no idea how they get the keys (probably OEM) and whether this is actually kosher (and I don't wanna know) but I did this with Win 10 some years ago as well and it has worked out thus far. Just pay with e.g. PP and they'll send you the key via e-mail.
- williamvds 4y ago
  Grey market key resellers, apparently using volume licensing. It's a roll of the dice whether they'll stay valid, possibly because the same key is resold repeatedly, or Microsoft blacklists them.

pbhjpbhj 4y ago

So if I buy a computer with Win 11 then I can claim €259 back as long as I wrote it and install Linux? Isn't that how things worked before with Windows-tax automatically applied to all retail computers in major chain stores? That clearly won't work, as one could get free computers ... but what is the situation in getting reimbursements of Windows-tax?

dagw 4y ago
So if I buy a computer with Win 11 then I can claim €259 back Anybody else remember Windows Refund Day? Some OEMs actually did offer a refund of around $30-50, which was the cost of an OEM license at the time. Although many court cases around the world have since then ruled that you don't have a right to claim a refund for unused OEM licenses.
- nicolaslem 4y ago
  Yes, I got my Windows license refunded years ago. AFAIK it was not simply getting a refund for something unused, but rather the fact that the hardware and the software were two distinct products that were bundled together without the consumer having a say.
nrp 4y ago
We have the Framework Laptop DIY Edition that ships without an OS or OS license specifically to make sure folks don’t have to do this and can bring the OS that they want.

ChuckNorris89 4y ago

>what surprise me is that a Windows 11 Pro licence cost 259 Euro. Micro$oft still make a lot of money with windonws =) Not really. Windows 11 Pro retail is $199 today which might sound steep but in comparison Windows XP Pro retail was $299 in 2001 which adjusted for inflation would be $500 today. Ouch! Windows 95 retailed at a whopping $205 in '95 or ~$400 in today's money, while a retail Win 11 Home is $139 now. So Windows has actually gotten massively cheaper, which is weird considering that OS complexity, update frequency has increased and SW dev salaries and expenses have gone up since then.

flatiron 4y ago
They make money on OS ads now to subsidize the cost
- ChuckNorris89 4y ago
  That and no more customer support to pay for. Plus, the consumer prices are probably subsidized by the massive volumes in OEM licenses and O365 subscriptions.
  - okasaki 4y ago
    Microsoft never had customer support. If you had a problem you either called your grandson or took it to the local computer repair shop. Maybe you mean QA testers.
Otek 4y ago
But Microsoft is making now money from tracking and they didn’t do that in ‘95

vhodges 4y ago

You want to look at the DIY options (it's not terribly hard to install the RAM and storage), for no Windows tax.