5 ms·

Abstinence is a real option. Sure, not everyone will practice it. But it remains the best way to avoid pregnancy and should be recognized as such.

imwillofficial 4y ago
[flagged]
oneplane 4y ago
It's not a real option if you want to have sex, and lots of humans want to have sex. So if you want to have sex, but do not want to risk an STD or pregnancy, a condom is a highly effective tool.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
mrleinad 4y ago
Not leaving your house seems to be the best way to avoid traffic accidents too.
- nonethewiser 4y ago
  It’s important and necessary to leave your house. Do you feel the same way about high schoolers having sex?
  - foogazi 4y ago
    Regardless of how we feel about it wouldn’t that be up to the high schoolers ?
  - mrleinad 4y ago
    Yes. It's really important that teenagers get to learn everything they can about the world. And sex is a huge part of it. That doesn't mean they shouldn't be guided or counseled about it, but they should be free to experience it within boundaries. Healthy humans will arise from that.
becurious 4y ago
It’s not, because like compliance with taking say a contraceptive pill, people don’t manage to abstain. They get caught up in the heat of the moment, or pressured, or a thousand other things. When you compare to other methods of birth control, it’s not effective for teens.
- nonethewiser 4y ago
  Abstinence is a 100% effective. Note that I explicitly acknowledged that kids will have sex sometimes and think they should use condoms if they do.
  - buffington 4y ago
    No one is arguing with you over you repeatedly pointing out that abstinence is 100% effective, because you're correct. It is 100% effective. Using it as an argument against providing free condoms to high schoolers is just annoying and not constructive. It's like arguing that cars don't need seatbelts by saying "we don't need seat belts, after all, not driving is a solution that's 100% effective in preventing vehicle collision injuries." True, but not even remotely useful as an argument for whether or not cars should have seatbelts.
    - nonethewiser 4y ago
      Where did I argue against using condoms? I explicitly supported it. If you agree with everything I said why are you opposing me?
      - buffington 4y ago
        I've seen two comments where you mention condoms in this thread. Perhaps there are more, but I have not seen then, nor replied to them. The relevant sentences from those two comments: > teaching abstinence as the ideal doesn’t mean you have shun condoms. Ok. > Abstinence is a 100% effective. Note that I explicitly acknowledged that kids will have sex sometimes and think they should use condoms if they do. This is the only comment I've seen where you've acknowledged that kids will have sex, and that they should you use condoms. If you've said it elsewhere in this thread, I haven't seen it. While it's true you haven't argued against condoms, it's hard to imagine you support schools providing free condoms when your response to the idea is consistently "abstinence is 100% effective." > If you agree with everything I said why are you opposing me? What I am opposing is the repetition of "abstinence is 100% effective." Why is stating this important to you? Are you suggesting it as an alternative to handing out condoms? Are you suggesting that abstinence education is preferable?
buffington 4y ago
Fasting is a real option. Sure, not everyone will practice it. But it remains the best way to avoid food poisoning and should be recognized as such. /s While technically true, asking people to actively suppress biological motivations doesn't work.
- nonethewiser 4y ago
  Do you think high schoolers having sex is as necessary and good as eating food?
  - buffington 4y ago
    No. I think expecting high schoolers to abstain from sex is about as realistic as asking them to abstain from eating. I'm saying nothing about whether either of those biological impulses is necessary or not, only that they're both very influential motivators for humans.
    - nonethewiser 4y ago
      Then it’s a bad analogy, because eating is necessary. Sex is not. Some amount of sex is inevitable but it does not preclude you from teaching abstinence as the ideal. And teaching abstinence as the ideal doesn’t mean you have shun condoms. What motivates people to create this false dichotomy? Perhaps the worst possible thing we could teach kids about their biological urge to have sex is that they can’t control it.
      - AlexandrB 4y ago
        [dead]
hackeraccount 4y ago
The kind of subtly you're by implication asking for - "we don't think this is a good idea but here's a tool to make it safer" - is the kind of thing that parents struggle with. Schools? That's impossible for them. They can barely manage saying yes(and here're some condoms) or No.
nickthegreek 4y ago
Good news, the school also doesn't charge students for abstinence either. So it looks like all parties are now happy.
falcolas 4y ago
Abstinence only has been proven time after time to be the least effective method of preventing teenage pregnancy. So while it is indeed a real option, it's one of the worst available options. The first (of many) study reports backing this up: https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2017/08/23/545289168/abstinence-education-is-ineffective-and-unethical-report-argues https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2017/08/23/5452891...
- nonethewiser 4y ago
  I’m talking about abstinence, which is obviously 100% effective. What you linked is about abstinence only education. I explicitly acknowledged that kids having sex was inevitable.
foogazi 4y ago
What does this have to do with giving out condoms ? Those that abstain don’t have to pick them up, but could still practice I guess

imwillofficial 4y ago

[flagged]

oneplane 4y ago

It's not a real option if you want to have sex, and lots of humans want to have sex. So if you want to have sex, but do not want to risk an STD or pregnancy, a condom is a highly effective tool.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

mrleinad 4y ago

Not leaving your house seems to be the best way to avoid traffic accidents too.

nonethewiser 4y ago
It’s important and necessary to leave your house. Do you feel the same way about high schoolers having sex?
- foogazi 4y ago
  Regardless of how we feel about it wouldn’t that be up to the high schoolers ?
- mrleinad 4y ago
  Yes. It's really important that teenagers get to learn everything they can about the world. And sex is a huge part of it. That doesn't mean they shouldn't be guided or counseled about it, but they should be free to experience it within boundaries. Healthy humans will arise from that.

becurious 4y ago

It’s not, because like compliance with taking say a contraceptive pill, people don’t manage to abstain. They get caught up in the heat of the moment, or pressured, or a thousand other things. When you compare to other methods of birth control, it’s not effective for teens.

nonethewiser 4y ago
Abstinence is a 100% effective. Note that I explicitly acknowledged that kids will have sex sometimes and think they should use condoms if they do.
- buffington 4y ago
  No one is arguing with you over you repeatedly pointing out that abstinence is 100% effective, because you're correct. It is 100% effective. Using it as an argument against providing free condoms to high schoolers is just annoying and not constructive. It's like arguing that cars don't need seatbelts by saying "we don't need seat belts, after all, not driving is a solution that's 100% effective in preventing vehicle collision injuries." True, but not even remotely useful as an argument for whether or not cars should have seatbelts.
  - nonethewiser 4y ago
    Where did I argue against using condoms? I explicitly supported it. If you agree with everything I said why are you opposing me?
    - buffington 4y ago
      I've seen two comments where you mention condoms in this thread. Perhaps there are more, but I have not seen then, nor replied to them. The relevant sentences from those two comments: > teaching abstinence as the ideal doesn’t mean you have shun condoms. Ok. > Abstinence is a 100% effective. Note that I explicitly acknowledged that kids will have sex sometimes and think they should use condoms if they do. This is the only comment I've seen where you've acknowledged that kids will have sex, and that they should you use condoms. If you've said it elsewhere in this thread, I haven't seen it. While it's true you haven't argued against condoms, it's hard to imagine you support schools providing free condoms when your response to the idea is consistently "abstinence is 100% effective." > If you agree with everything I said why are you opposing me? What I am opposing is the repetition of "abstinence is 100% effective." Why is stating this important to you? Are you suggesting it as an alternative to handing out condoms? Are you suggesting that abstinence education is preferable?

buffington 4y ago

Fasting is a real option. Sure, not everyone will practice it. But it remains the best way to avoid food poisoning and should be recognized as such. /s While technically true, asking people to actively suppress biological motivations doesn't work.

nonethewiser 4y ago
Do you think high schoolers having sex is as necessary and good as eating food?
- buffington 4y ago
  No. I think expecting high schoolers to abstain from sex is about as realistic as asking them to abstain from eating. I'm saying nothing about whether either of those biological impulses is necessary or not, only that they're both very influential motivators for humans.
  - nonethewiser 4y ago
    Then it’s a bad analogy, because eating is necessary. Sex is not. Some amount of sex is inevitable but it does not preclude you from teaching abstinence as the ideal. And teaching abstinence as the ideal doesn’t mean you have shun condoms. What motivates people to create this false dichotomy? Perhaps the worst possible thing we could teach kids about their biological urge to have sex is that they can’t control it.
    - AlexandrB 4y ago
      [dead]

hackeraccount 4y ago

The kind of subtly you're by implication asking for - "we don't think this is a good idea but here's a tool to make it safer" - is the kind of thing that parents struggle with. Schools? That's impossible for them. They can barely manage saying yes(and here're some condoms) or No.

nickthegreek 4y ago

Good news, the school also doesn't charge students for abstinence either. So it looks like all parties are now happy.

falcolas 4y ago

Abstinence only has been proven time after time to be the least effective method of preventing teenage pregnancy. So while it is indeed a real option, it's one of the worst available options. The first (of many) study reports backing this up: https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2017/08/23/545289168/abstinence-education-is-ineffective-and-unethical-report-argues https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2017/08/23/5452891...

nonethewiser 4y ago
I’m talking about abstinence, which is obviously 100% effective. What you linked is about abstinence only education. I explicitly acknowledged that kids having sex was inevitable.

foogazi 4y ago

What does this have to do with giving out condoms ? Those that abstain don’t have to pick them up, but could still practice I guess