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> It's also fascinating to realize that their REVENUE per employee is ~85K USD. Is it me or this number is ridiculously awful? I work for a small firm that isn

by qsort 4y ago

> It's also fascinating to realize that their REVENUE per employee is ~85K USD. Is it me or this number is ridiculously awful? I work for a small firm that isn't even US-based and we are easily at multiples of that figure.

turnsout 4y ago
It's not good in absolute terms, but when you look at their headcount… wow
mjr00 4y ago
Part of the value prop of Accenture is that they employee inexpensive foreign labor. They have 300,000 employees in India alone[0]. If those people are working at $20,000 a year, that's 300,000 * 65,000 = $19.5 billion in yearly profit from those employees alone. And India is a relatively expensive country these days; their margins in Vietnam and Thailand are probably even greater. [0] https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/business/india-business/accentures-india-employee-strength-rises-to-3-lakh/articleshow/91058669.cms https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/business/india-business/...
- seanmcdirmid 4y ago
  Vietnam maybe, but Thailand is a middle income country. India has an HDI of .63, Thailand is at .68 (China is at .76, the USA is at .92). Labor costs are only one part that detract from your margin, you also have to consider productivity (what are you getting for your costs) and overhead (what taxes/bribes/rents do you need to pay). It is really easy to set up in a developing country and lose money rather than make it.
  - mjr00 4y ago
    Right, and part of the "value" that Accenture brings is that it knows how to operate in these areas. It will send US-based managers to work with the foreign dev teams to, ahem, ensure productivity on projects where it matters (on many projects e.g. government contracts the output doesn't really matter), it knows the local bribes and customs companies need to follow to operate in the area.
  - alephnerd 4y ago
    Those Thailand numbers are way off. Thailand's HDI is 0.8 and expat salaries (at least at McK) in BKK were always Shanghai and Beijing adjacent (if not higher until the 2010s). Heck, a lot of Vietnamese prefer studying and working abroad in Thailand because salaries and development is higher than in VN and only the elite can afford to send their kids to VinUni or RMIT Saigon.
    - seanmcdirmid 4y ago
      Bangkok is an anomaly, these numbers are Thailand wide. I was surprised China passed Thailand in the last decade (given those numbers are country wide as well, Shanghai is going to be much higher than .76). Last time I looked 10 years ago, China was lower than Thailand, things change quickly. The original premise that Thailand is cheaper than India is definitely wrong, we both can probably agree on that.
      - alephnerd 4y ago
        I'm using UN Data - https://hdr.undp.org/data-center/country-insights#/ranks https://hdr.undp.org/data-center/country-insights#/ranks I think the issue was Google Search's summarization algorithm parsed the wrong sentence in a non-verified website (I did the same search you did and recreated your issue). Also, the same thing holds for China as well. BKK =/= Thailand and Shanghai/Beijing/Tianjin =/= China as well. Not to mitigate the massive amount of development that China has seen the past 20 years, but Thailand's subregional development (measured via HDI) is very even - the poorest region (Isan) has a HDI of around 0.781 and the richest (BKK the prefecture, not the city) is around 0.839 in 2021. Compared to China outside of Tier 1 cities it's a significant difference (and on a separate note Ik Chinese policymakers have been looking into Thailand's anti-poverty policies to replicate them in Shaanxi)
        seanmcdirmid 4y ago
        Not sure why you included Tianjin there, it isn't as rich as Hangzhou, Guangzhou, Shenzhen etc... Thailand back slided during the last decade because of political instability. Having a military coup every couple of years isn't great for business. Although I agree that .68 is too low for Thailand from personal experience. It feels like Thailand should still be above China, but I'm not confident in making that call without seeing the numbers crunched (so I'm willing to accept your numbers more than the ones I found via a quick Google search).
- sjs7007 4y ago
  The average new grad in a consulting company like TCS/Wipro/Infosys has started at around 3.6-4.8k usd/year for like the past decade. I think Accenture would also be in similar range but not sure.
- alephnerd 4y ago
  I was in VN+Thailand for work recently. Private sector White collar salaries in VN, Thailand, and India are roughly comparable. That said, there isn't as deep a bench of expendable somewhat English fluent software talent in VN or TH (largely due to the explosion in technical colleges teaching basic fizzbuzz in India and the lack of English medium education in VN+TH). Both VN and TH are also clearly targeting South Korean and Japanese companies instead of American ones ime due to the 2013-17 Trade War between PRC and Japan+SK.
toyg 4y ago
It's still likely 2-5x what the employee is paid. Not bad, at large scale.

by qsort 4y ago

turnsout 4y ago

It's not good in absolute terms, but when you look at their headcount… wow

mjr00 4y ago

Part of the value prop of Accenture is that they employee inexpensive foreign labor. They have 300,000 employees in India alone[0]. If those people are working at $20,000 a year, that's 300,000 * 65,000 = $19.5 billion in yearly profit from those employees alone. And India is a relatively expensive country these days; their margins in Vietnam and Thailand are probably even greater. [0] https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/business/india-business/accentures-india-employee-strength-rises-to-3-lakh/articleshow/91058669.cms https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/business/india-business/...

seanmcdirmid 4y ago
Vietnam maybe, but Thailand is a middle income country. India has an HDI of .63, Thailand is at .68 (China is at .76, the USA is at .92). Labor costs are only one part that detract from your margin, you also have to consider productivity (what are you getting for your costs) and overhead (what taxes/bribes/rents do you need to pay). It is really easy to set up in a developing country and lose money rather than make it.
- mjr00 4y ago
  Right, and part of the "value" that Accenture brings is that it knows how to operate in these areas. It will send US-based managers to work with the foreign dev teams to, ahem, ensure productivity on projects where it matters (on many projects e.g. government contracts the output doesn't really matter), it knows the local bribes and customs companies need to follow to operate in the area.
- alephnerd 4y ago
  Those Thailand numbers are way off. Thailand's HDI is 0.8 and expat salaries (at least at McK) in BKK were always Shanghai and Beijing adjacent (if not higher until the 2010s). Heck, a lot of Vietnamese prefer studying and working abroad in Thailand because salaries and development is higher than in VN and only the elite can afford to send their kids to VinUni or RMIT Saigon.
  - seanmcdirmid 4y ago
    Bangkok is an anomaly, these numbers are Thailand wide. I was surprised China passed Thailand in the last decade (given those numbers are country wide as well, Shanghai is going to be much higher than .76). Last time I looked 10 years ago, China was lower than Thailand, things change quickly. The original premise that Thailand is cheaper than India is definitely wrong, we both can probably agree on that.
    - alephnerd 4y ago
      I'm using UN Data - https://hdr.undp.org/data-center/country-insights#/ranks https://hdr.undp.org/data-center/country-insights#/ranks I think the issue was Google Search's summarization algorithm parsed the wrong sentence in a non-verified website (I did the same search you did and recreated your issue). Also, the same thing holds for China as well. BKK =/= Thailand and Shanghai/Beijing/Tianjin =/= China as well. Not to mitigate the massive amount of development that China has seen the past 20 years, but Thailand's subregional development (measured via HDI) is very even - the poorest region (Isan) has a HDI of around 0.781 and the richest (BKK the prefecture, not the city) is around 0.839 in 2021. Compared to China outside of Tier 1 cities it's a significant difference (and on a separate note Ik Chinese policymakers have been looking into Thailand's anti-poverty policies to replicate them in Shaanxi)
      - seanmcdirmid 4y ago
        Not sure why you included Tianjin there, it isn't as rich as Hangzhou, Guangzhou, Shenzhen etc... Thailand back slided during the last decade because of political instability. Having a military coup every couple of years isn't great for business. Although I agree that .68 is too low for Thailand from personal experience. It feels like Thailand should still be above China, but I'm not confident in making that call without seeing the numbers crunched (so I'm willing to accept your numbers more than the ones I found via a quick Google search).
sjs7007 4y ago
The average new grad in a consulting company like TCS/Wipro/Infosys has started at around 3.6-4.8k usd/year for like the past decade. I think Accenture would also be in similar range but not sure.
alephnerd 4y ago
I was in VN+Thailand for work recently. Private sector White collar salaries in VN, Thailand, and India are roughly comparable. That said, there isn't as deep a bench of expendable somewhat English fluent software talent in VN or TH (largely due to the explosion in technical colleges teaching basic fizzbuzz in India and the lack of English medium education in VN+TH). Both VN and TH are also clearly targeting South Korean and Japanese companies instead of American ones ime due to the 2013-17 Trade War between PRC and Japan+SK.

toyg 4y ago

It's still likely 2-5x what the employee is paid. Not bad, at large scale.