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> The problem is: you can't do upgrade pricing in the app store. That is not a real problem. Many apps handle this by checking for a prior version and giving

> The problem is: you can't do upgrade pricing in the app store. That is not a real problem. Many apps handle this by checking for a prior version and giving a discount (see Omni or Affinity approach), by having an upgrade window (e.g. 1Password approach before switching to subs outside app store), or by just charging full freight again (which nobody who values software actually minds, and enterprises that budget full retail software per person/year anyway definitely don't even think about). If you charge $X a month over time and think that's fair, you can charge $X * 24 every two years, and let people who dislike the upgrade treadmill just sit on the old version till iOS APIs shift out from under them. In the meantime, you had the two years cash up front which funds future development. > They get their licenses, I'm not getting my money because they just don't pay. Sucks to be me. What are you talking about? The Apple Business Manager UI is a web based app store, one searches for the app, clicks to pay full retail, and you get your full money, immediately, the same as you get your IAP or sub. Meanwhile, the app is bought in bulk, assigned to the employee base, and you just sold 15,000 copies at retail by having a full price version when you otherwise couldn't sell any. You don't talk to the enterprise and more importantly, I don't have to talk to you, or any other indie dev with weird bespoke purchasing processes not already approved by the enterprise procurement and expense systems.

foooorsyth 4y ago
> or by just charging full freight again But is this possible with a one-time-full-price app in the App Store? It’s not, right? Once someone pays for your app, they get all updates forever. I think that’s what the person you were replying to was getting at. Basically, there are 3 major purchase models for software: 1) I’m buying a forever license 2) I’m buying this major version only 3) I’m subscribing to this software on a monthly/yearly basis The App Store only seems to support 1) and 3), but not 2). If you want to do 2), you have to roll it yourself outside of Apple’s infrastructure. Which means sending your own invoices, setting up your own key mechanisms, and all of that associated pain
- alexvoda 4y ago
  This is just one more reason 3'rd party stores should exist.
  - Terretta 4y ago
    If you think corporations will buy from the third party store that isn't built into the Apple Business Manager (plus MDM of choice) that lets you open shrink-wrapped Macs and hand them to the employee with all their apps self-installed, think again.
    - alexvoda 4y ago
      Maybe not, but competition will put pressure on Apple to improove and offer more options for business models other than 1 and 3.
    - yencabulator 4y ago
      I think the ability to MDM manage 3rd party stores is part of table stakes for "3rd party stores should [be allowed to] exist". Apple likes their walled garden.
- Aeolun 4y ago
  I think you can solve that by copying your codebase and releasing version 3 under a different app ID.
  - xhruso00 4y ago
    You will lose all the reviews and start from 0. Apple will not allow 2 different versions at the same time.
- jtbayly 4y ago
  Some devs make each major version its own app in the App Store. It has drawbacks, I suppose, but it works.
  - Terretta 4y ago
    See e.g. 1Password 7, 1Password 8. See the apps like PDF Expert from Readdle Docs. See ... no need to itemize, as tons of successful app vendors make this work. It's not a real problem.
    - jamesgeck0 4y ago
      The macOS version of 1Password 8 isn’t on the App Store, presumably because of draconian pricing rules like this.
      - jtbayly 4y ago
        I’d be willing to bet anything it’s just because of the 30%.
- ricardobeat 4y ago
  Happens all the time. You rename v1 to 'AppX 1', and publish v2/latest as just 'AppX'. Would be much better if the App Store had paid major updates built in, but this is good enough. [Except when they decide to spam the legacy version with upgrade nags, gray out the app icon and put a bright red 'OLD' tag on top - looking at you, Blinkshell]
newaccount74 4y ago
> you just sold 15,000 copies at retail by having a full price version when you otherwise couldn't sell any That's wishful thinking. No business buys 15,000 copies of an app just like that. My experience from the point of view of an independent software developer is that: 1. The company will email you to fill out some forms because they are considering a bulk purchase. You get all excited and jump right into filling out their forms. 2. They will ask for a volume discount. 3. They will ask for some more forms to fill out. They'll casually mention that they are looking at competitors as well. Okay, maybe now they can finally make the purchase... 4. Ultimately they will order 5 licenses and move them around between employees as needed. In the mean time, 50 private customers will have bought a license without ever contacting you. If there's a market where businesses randomly buy 15,000 copies of an app let me know and I'll switch to making apps in that market. (Also, in my experience, most bigger companies don't use Apple Business Manager, they buy software via resellers like Software One)
- kybernetyk 4y ago
  Can't agree more. Been through the "please fill out those forms to register with our software reseller" thing too many times. In the end they order 2 licenses. Then there's those who absolutely need to send a purchase order with a 90+ days payment goal for what amounts to be $150 or so. 75% of the time I agreed to that I have never seen any money. The worst are K12 districts who expect you to fill out government forms (+ extra forms because I'm not from the US) then to order 1 copy they share between all their students. I just resort to sending them a free license they can legally use for all their students. Then there's the notable exceptions. A social network site for professionals somehow manages to just order 20 licenses with a credit card. Same goes for a search engine company. Or a certain operating system vendor. No fucking PO required. No forms. They just get a corporate credit card and use the Fast Spring webshop I set up. I'm really done with corporate/enterprise bullshit. They can go to my competition and shower them with stupid purchase orders for 15,000 units. I prefer to keep my sanity.
dikaio 4y ago
This is one of the things that bothers me about Apples app install process; I reinstall my OS often and when I start installing software via App Store, Apple displays the price and the notification that you will be charged never giving the user prior indication of whether the app is a new version that you will or will not pay for. With all the brilliant heads behind Apple you would think they would be able to get the UX right on this.
- kybernetyk 4y ago
  There's always the "purchased apps" list you get to by clicking on your Apple ID avatar in the lower left corner of the Mac App Store.
kybernetyk 4y ago
>That is not a real problem. It is to me. I don't want the app store full with different versions of my software that will confuse any prospect buyer. I also don't want my main customers to feel shafted because every N months I just push out a new app at full price. What happens to the people who bought like 2 weeks ago? I have only 100 promo codes I can send out - and those who use promo codes can't write a review. Ah yes, reviews. My $50 Mac App has over 700 reviews (4.8 avg rating). It took years to build that up. I'm not throwing this away just because some corporate admin waves the idea of someone purchasing "15,000" units (which is never going to happen anyway). Heck if you really intended to give me $750k you could contact me and I'd put up a special version of the app just for you. But guess what: You're never going to buy 15k units from me. Neither is anyone else. So, my main customers are single users who are not in a corporate setting. They are my main source of revenue. I'm not going to fuck with them to get into the "maybe corporate is going to give you a million dollars" lottery. I've been doing this software business shit for too long to be that naive. You're barking up the wrong tree here. Go to Apple and complain why you can't purchase IAPs with your magical Apple IDs.

foooorsyth 4y ago

> or by just charging full freight again But is this possible with a one-time-full-price app in the App Store? It’s not, right? Once someone pays for your app, they get all updates forever. I think that’s what the person you were replying to was getting at. Basically, there are 3 major purchase models for software: 1) I’m buying a forever license 2) I’m buying this major version only 3) I’m subscribing to this software on a monthly/yearly basis The App Store only seems to support 1) and 3), but not 2). If you want to do 2), you have to roll it yourself outside of Apple’s infrastructure. Which means sending your own invoices, setting up your own key mechanisms, and all of that associated pain

alexvoda 4y ago
This is just one more reason 3'rd party stores should exist.
- Terretta 4y ago
  If you think corporations will buy from the third party store that isn't built into the Apple Business Manager (plus MDM of choice) that lets you open shrink-wrapped Macs and hand them to the employee with all their apps self-installed, think again.
  - alexvoda 4y ago
    Maybe not, but competition will put pressure on Apple to improove and offer more options for business models other than 1 and 3.
  - yencabulator 4y ago
    I think the ability to MDM manage 3rd party stores is part of table stakes for "3rd party stores should [be allowed to] exist". Apple likes their walled garden.
Aeolun 4y ago
I think you can solve that by copying your codebase and releasing version 3 under a different app ID.
- xhruso00 4y ago
  You will lose all the reviews and start from 0. Apple will not allow 2 different versions at the same time.
jtbayly 4y ago
Some devs make each major version its own app in the App Store. It has drawbacks, I suppose, but it works.
- Terretta 4y ago
  See e.g. 1Password 7, 1Password 8. See the apps like PDF Expert from Readdle Docs. See ... no need to itemize, as tons of successful app vendors make this work. It's not a real problem.
  - jamesgeck0 4y ago
    The macOS version of 1Password 8 isn’t on the App Store, presumably because of draconian pricing rules like this.
    - jtbayly 4y ago
      I’d be willing to bet anything it’s just because of the 30%.
ricardobeat 4y ago
Happens all the time. You rename v1 to 'AppX 1', and publish v2/latest as just 'AppX'. Would be much better if the App Store had paid major updates built in, but this is good enough. [Except when they decide to spam the legacy version with upgrade nags, gray out the app icon and put a bright red 'OLD' tag on top - looking at you, Blinkshell]

newaccount74 4y ago

> you just sold 15,000 copies at retail by having a full price version when you otherwise couldn't sell any That's wishful thinking. No business buys 15,000 copies of an app just like that. My experience from the point of view of an independent software developer is that: 1. The company will email you to fill out some forms because they are considering a bulk purchase. You get all excited and jump right into filling out their forms. 2. They will ask for a volume discount. 3. They will ask for some more forms to fill out. They'll casually mention that they are looking at competitors as well. Okay, maybe now they can finally make the purchase... 4. Ultimately they will order 5 licenses and move them around between employees as needed. In the mean time, 50 private customers will have bought a license without ever contacting you. If there's a market where businesses randomly buy 15,000 copies of an app let me know and I'll switch to making apps in that market. (Also, in my experience, most bigger companies don't use Apple Business Manager, they buy software via resellers like Software One)

kybernetyk 4y ago
Can't agree more. Been through the "please fill out those forms to register with our software reseller" thing too many times. In the end they order 2 licenses. Then there's those who absolutely need to send a purchase order with a 90+ days payment goal for what amounts to be $150 or so. 75% of the time I agreed to that I have never seen any money. The worst are K12 districts who expect you to fill out government forms (+ extra forms because I'm not from the US) then to order 1 copy they share between all their students. I just resort to sending them a free license they can legally use for all their students. Then there's the notable exceptions. A social network site for professionals somehow manages to just order 20 licenses with a credit card. Same goes for a search engine company. Or a certain operating system vendor. No fucking PO required. No forms. They just get a corporate credit card and use the Fast Spring webshop I set up. I'm really done with corporate/enterprise bullshit. They can go to my competition and shower them with stupid purchase orders for 15,000 units. I prefer to keep my sanity.

dikaio 4y ago

This is one of the things that bothers me about Apples app install process; I reinstall my OS often and when I start installing software via App Store, Apple displays the price and the notification that you will be charged never giving the user prior indication of whether the app is a new version that you will or will not pay for. With all the brilliant heads behind Apple you would think they would be able to get the UX right on this.

kybernetyk 4y ago
There's always the "purchased apps" list you get to by clicking on your Apple ID avatar in the lower left corner of the Mac App Store.

kybernetyk 4y ago

>That is not a real problem. It is to me. I don't want the app store full with different versions of my software that will confuse any prospect buyer. I also don't want my main customers to feel shafted because every N months I just push out a new app at full price. What happens to the people who bought like 2 weeks ago? I have only 100 promo codes I can send out - and those who use promo codes can't write a review. Ah yes, reviews. My $50 Mac App has over 700 reviews (4.8 avg rating). It took years to build that up. I'm not throwing this away just because some corporate admin waves the idea of someone purchasing "15,000" units (which is never going to happen anyway). Heck if you really intended to give me $750k you could contact me and I'd put up a special version of the app just for you. But guess what: You're never going to buy 15k units from me. Neither is anyone else. So, my main customers are single users who are not in a corporate setting. They are my main source of revenue. I'm not going to fuck with them to get into the "maybe corporate is going to give you a million dollars" lottery. I've been doing this software business shit for too long to be that naive. You're barking up the wrong tree here. Go to Apple and complain why you can't purchase IAPs with your magical Apple IDs.