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I can take my money and put it into a slot machine, gamble it on horses, gamble it on sports games. I can buy useless thousand dollar sneakers, I can buy pokem

I can take my money and put it into a slot machine, gamble it on horses, gamble it on sports games. I can buy useless thousand dollar sneakers, I can buy pokemon cards. I can waste my money on absurdly overpriced art, give it to scammy non-profits, donate it to scammy spoiler political candidates. In some states I can use my money to hire hookers, or buy drugs. But if I want to buy crypto, all of a sudden that is a problem and the government needs to come in and "protect" me from it. Why is that, I wonder?

libraryatnight 4y ago
I don't know, why is it? Are you sincerely confused and do you think any of the things you listed prior to buying crypto are at all the same thing?
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
ajhurliman 4y ago
For better or worse, the US controls international banking. If we lose that, we essentially lose all of our non-military options for intervening in geopolitical situations. Keeping crypto down is sort of in the US's interest.
- whitepaint 4y ago
  > Keeping crypto down is sort of in the US's interest. The opposite is true (think of USDC). Eventually politicians will get it.
lelanthran 4y ago
> I can take my money and put it into a slot machine, gamble it on horses, gamble it on sports games. I can buy useless thousand dollar sneakers, I can buy pokemon cards. I can waste my money on absurdly overpriced art, give it to scammy non-profits, donate it to scammy spoiler political candidates. > In some states I can use my money to hire hookers, or buy drugs. > But if I want to buy crypto, all of a sudden that is a problem and the government needs to come in and "protect" me from it. Why is that, I wonder? If the casinos advertised slot machines as an investment, would you still wonder?
- bombcar 4y ago
  I may be misremembering but I seem to recall that the Pokemon cards and other collectible card games go out of their way to clarify that they are NOT investments.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- ETH_start 4y ago
  A huge number of crypto projects never advertised their tokens as an investment, and explicitly and repeatedly stated that they are not investments and should not be expected to appreciate, yet the SEC still charged them with promoting an unregistered security.
  - DeRock 4y ago
    Can you give an example of one?
    - ETH_start 4y ago
      Pretty much all of them: they go out of their way to state it is not an investment. Taken the GNT token, used in the Golem network, for example: https://assets.website-files.com/62446d07873fde065cbcb8d5/62446d07873fde5007bcb928_GNTterms.pdf https://assets.website-files.com/62446d07873fde065cbcb8d5/62...
      - skywhopper 4y ago
        Can you name one?
      - peripitea 4y ago
        Just reading this and I don't understand how anyone would say this passes the Howey Test. This is clearly a security. The only possible debate is whether there is an expectation of profit, but I can't see anyone seriously entertaining that debate -- there was an ICO! What do you think the median person buying into that ICO was expecting? "I'm going to spend a few thousands dollars on this token that might have utility in this project in a few years"?? Come on.
keyanp 4y ago
Everyone knows what they are doing when gambling etc But nowadays crypto is being pitched as an investment to the layperson who doesn’t understand the risks and isn’t being told those risks by the exchanges. It’s those folks the SEC is trying to protect. That and prevention of larger market issues that can arise from unregulated financial services, ie FTX
- thepasswordis 4y ago
  >Everyone knows what they are doing when gambling etc No they absolutely do not.
  - aardvarkr 4y ago
    Gambling is a pretty easy concept to understand, and it’s been with all of us since we were kids. Person A wagers an amount that a certain outcome will occur. Person B accepts that wager and agreed to the terms of the wager. If every kid on the playground can understand how a bet works I guarantee adults can too.
    - Auracle 4y ago
      I’ve talked with otherwise intelligent people that thought they were coming out ahead on pull tabs or Magic the Gathering cards. Investing in crypto is also easy to understand. It’s speculation and the price might drop to 0. It’s the psychology of both that are harder to deal with.
    - tasuki 4y ago
      I can assure you many people gambling on slot machines think they'll come out ahead. Gambling can be extremely addictive and harmful, to the point the addict stops using logical reasoning.
      - bluecalm 4y ago
        Gambling is easier to understand than investments. That being said I agree there should be more regulation. You should be required to state excatly what expected value and variance is when you offer gambling games. Same with fees. "This slot machine pays off 45% of your bet on average and here is how often you win X, Y, Z" or "organizer of this poker game earns about 90% of deposited money in rake and other fees while the remaining 10% is cashed out by the winners". It would be a better world if we had regulation forcing such disclosure but it doesn't mean that if we still don't have it for gambling we shouldn't have it for things advertised as investments.
joefigura 4y ago
The SEC's position is that some crypto coins are securities. Gambling, hookers, political donations, and non-profit donations are all regulated. Securities are regulated even more tightly because it's *really* easy to commit fraud and fleece people of their money by lying about investments. Capitalism works because most people trust that they can make investments without being defrauded. With hookers, non-profit donations, political donations, drugs, overpriced art, etc., the consumer knows more or less what they're getting. Lots of crypto coins are scams, and it's reasonable for the government to regulate them That said, as Coinbase complains, the SEC is doing a really bad job of regulating crypto securities in a usable way.
- thepasswordis 4y ago
  Are sneakers, pokemon cards, and art collections regulated? What if I buy some sneakers thinking I'm going to flip them and then I lose money?
  - joefigura 4y ago
    No. They aren't investment contracts. They're just sneakers. The SEC regulates the market for investment contracts (securities). The CFTC regulates the market for commodities. The legal point is that the SEC says Coinbase is a securities market, but haven't made a specific accusation, and Coinbase disagrees. But if some digital assets are securities, then the SEC definitely has jurisdiction. Nobody regulates the pokemon card market or sneaker market. I suppose congress could decide that it's super important to regulate sneakers, and set up the Sneakers and Exchange Comission. But they haven't yet
    - HWR_14 4y ago
      The securities/commodities division is so strange, I find it hard to parse. Like, I understand "shares of stock" are different from "corn". Sure. But then you get into strange things and it's unclear which they are.
  - wiradikusuma 4y ago
    You can wear them?
lottin 4y ago
Not so much protecting you, but ensuring a fair playing ground. If crypto is "finance", then it has to be subject to financial regulations.
- ETH_start 4y ago
  There is no such law. Pokemon is no different than a digital token with respect to the applicability of securities law, the SEC's inconsistent treatment of the respective assets notwithstanding. And your argument begs the question of why any restrictions should be placed on people buying/selling financial products to regiment how they do it.
  - libraryatnight 4y ago
    If you think any of this is analogous to a pokemon card or people collecting pokemon cards, your understanding of what is going on right now is pretty much useless.
    - ETH_start 4y ago
      They're identical in terms of all legal tests for an asset being a security, your insults notwithstanding. And if you contend otherwise, it would be constructive that you articulate why instead of engaging in more low-brow sophistry.
      - libraryatnight 4y ago
        again, they're not - i don't know which youtuber told you that, but you need to go back and re-think. It's not a personal insult to tell someone they're confused. You're confused. There isn't a generous interpretation on the planet that makes your analogy useful.
  - soco 4y ago
    Maybe if we compared the market size of the Pokemon cards trading with the crypto trading, and also the risks of one compared to the other, we might get a hint why one is in the spotlights while the other not. Not all problems can and have to be addressed at once, so having a priority list to apply your limited resources makes only sense.
jimbob45 4y ago
You’re implying the government doesn’t regulate any of those other activities?
aardvarkr 4y ago
Gee wiz, it’s not like “rug pulls” exist. That’s definitely not a thing that would ever happen and no way would there ever need to be regulation to prevent gullible people from being scammed.
mrtksn 4y ago
AFAIK horse races and slot machines are regulated, so they are required to operate within a framework. This "guarantees" that you are not investing your money on rigged horse games or on slot machines misrepresenting your odds of winning or outright lying to you. IMHO the correct reaction to this should be to make regulation requirements accessible and manageable so that the overhead is not prohibitive to smaller entrepreneurs. No regulations will create lemon markets and lemon markets don't self correct because the people who turn in it into lemon markets can just walk away rich.
skywhopper 4y ago
Almost everything you listed is heavily regulated. Why shouldn’t crypto be regulated as well?
- thepasswordis 4y ago
  Can you link me to the regulatory body that oversees sneaker markets and sneaker exchanges? My teenage kids will be very interested in reading this.
  - skywhopper 4y ago
    I did say “almost”. But in general in the US, the FTC regulates interstate commerce. IANAL, but for an overview of e-commerce regulations (assuming you’re talking about online sneaker exchanges), check out https://iclg.com/practice-areas/digital-business-laws-and-regulations/usa https://iclg.com/practice-areas/digital-business-laws-and-re....
throw1234651234 4y ago
It protects you from investing in private companies like SpaceX IF YOU ARE POOR too, you are welcome!
MagicMoonlight 4y ago
The slot machine is regulated so that it has fixed odds and isn’t rigged against specific players

libraryatnight 4y ago

I don't know, why is it? Are you sincerely confused and do you think any of the things you listed prior to buying crypto are at all the same thing?

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

ajhurliman 4y ago

For better or worse, the US controls international banking. If we lose that, we essentially lose all of our non-military options for intervening in geopolitical situations. Keeping crypto down is sort of in the US's interest.

whitepaint 4y ago
> Keeping crypto down is sort of in the US's interest. The opposite is true (think of USDC). Eventually politicians will get it.

lelanthran 4y ago

> I can take my money and put it into a slot machine, gamble it on horses, gamble it on sports games. I can buy useless thousand dollar sneakers, I can buy pokemon cards. I can waste my money on absurdly overpriced art, give it to scammy non-profits, donate it to scammy spoiler political candidates. > In some states I can use my money to hire hookers, or buy drugs. > But if I want to buy crypto, all of a sudden that is a problem and the government needs to come in and "protect" me from it. Why is that, I wonder? If the casinos advertised slot machines as an investment, would you still wonder?

bombcar 4y ago
I may be misremembering but I seem to recall that the Pokemon cards and other collectible card games go out of their way to clarify that they are NOT investments.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
ETH_start 4y ago
A huge number of crypto projects never advertised their tokens as an investment, and explicitly and repeatedly stated that they are not investments and should not be expected to appreciate, yet the SEC still charged them with promoting an unregistered security.
- DeRock 4y ago
  Can you give an example of one?
  - ETH_start 4y ago
    Pretty much all of them: they go out of their way to state it is not an investment. Taken the GNT token, used in the Golem network, for example: https://assets.website-files.com/62446d07873fde065cbcb8d5/62446d07873fde5007bcb928_GNTterms.pdf https://assets.website-files.com/62446d07873fde065cbcb8d5/62...
    - skywhopper 4y ago
      Can you name one?
    - peripitea 4y ago
      Just reading this and I don't understand how anyone would say this passes the Howey Test. This is clearly a security. The only possible debate is whether there is an expectation of profit, but I can't see anyone seriously entertaining that debate -- there was an ICO! What do you think the median person buying into that ICO was expecting? "I'm going to spend a few thousands dollars on this token that might have utility in this project in a few years"?? Come on.

keyanp 4y ago

Everyone knows what they are doing when gambling etc But nowadays crypto is being pitched as an investment to the layperson who doesn’t understand the risks and isn’t being told those risks by the exchanges. It’s those folks the SEC is trying to protect. That and prevention of larger market issues that can arise from unregulated financial services, ie FTX

thepasswordis 4y ago
>Everyone knows what they are doing when gambling etc No they absolutely do not.
- aardvarkr 4y ago
  Gambling is a pretty easy concept to understand, and it’s been with all of us since we were kids. Person A wagers an amount that a certain outcome will occur. Person B accepts that wager and agreed to the terms of the wager. If every kid on the playground can understand how a bet works I guarantee adults can too.
  - Auracle 4y ago
    I’ve talked with otherwise intelligent people that thought they were coming out ahead on pull tabs or Magic the Gathering cards. Investing in crypto is also easy to understand. It’s speculation and the price might drop to 0. It’s the psychology of both that are harder to deal with.
  - tasuki 4y ago
    I can assure you many people gambling on slot machines think they'll come out ahead. Gambling can be extremely addictive and harmful, to the point the addict stops using logical reasoning.
    - bluecalm 4y ago
      Gambling is easier to understand than investments. That being said I agree there should be more regulation. You should be required to state excatly what expected value and variance is when you offer gambling games. Same with fees. "This slot machine pays off 45% of your bet on average and here is how often you win X, Y, Z" or "organizer of this poker game earns about 90% of deposited money in rake and other fees while the remaining 10% is cashed out by the winners". It would be a better world if we had regulation forcing such disclosure but it doesn't mean that if we still don't have it for gambling we shouldn't have it for things advertised as investments.

joefigura 4y ago

The SEC's position is that some crypto coins are securities. Gambling, hookers, political donations, and non-profit donations are all regulated. Securities are regulated even more tightly because it's *really* easy to commit fraud and fleece people of their money by lying about investments. Capitalism works because most people trust that they can make investments without being defrauded. With hookers, non-profit donations, political donations, drugs, overpriced art, etc., the consumer knows more or less what they're getting. Lots of crypto coins are scams, and it's reasonable for the government to regulate them That said, as Coinbase complains, the SEC is doing a really bad job of regulating crypto securities in a usable way.

thepasswordis 4y ago
Are sneakers, pokemon cards, and art collections regulated? What if I buy some sneakers thinking I'm going to flip them and then I lose money?
- joefigura 4y ago
  No. They aren't investment contracts. They're just sneakers. The SEC regulates the market for investment contracts (securities). The CFTC regulates the market for commodities. The legal point is that the SEC says Coinbase is a securities market, but haven't made a specific accusation, and Coinbase disagrees. But if some digital assets are securities, then the SEC definitely has jurisdiction. Nobody regulates the pokemon card market or sneaker market. I suppose congress could decide that it's super important to regulate sneakers, and set up the Sneakers and Exchange Comission. But they haven't yet
  - HWR_14 4y ago
    The securities/commodities division is so strange, I find it hard to parse. Like, I understand "shares of stock" are different from "corn". Sure. But then you get into strange things and it's unclear which they are.
- wiradikusuma 4y ago
  You can wear them?

lottin 4y ago

Not so much protecting you, but ensuring a fair playing ground. If crypto is "finance", then it has to be subject to financial regulations.

ETH_start 4y ago
There is no such law. Pokemon is no different than a digital token with respect to the applicability of securities law, the SEC's inconsistent treatment of the respective assets notwithstanding. And your argument begs the question of why any restrictions should be placed on people buying/selling financial products to regiment how they do it.
- libraryatnight 4y ago
  If you think any of this is analogous to a pokemon card or people collecting pokemon cards, your understanding of what is going on right now is pretty much useless.
  - ETH_start 4y ago
    They're identical in terms of all legal tests for an asset being a security, your insults notwithstanding. And if you contend otherwise, it would be constructive that you articulate why instead of engaging in more low-brow sophistry.
    - libraryatnight 4y ago
      again, they're not - i don't know which youtuber told you that, but you need to go back and re-think. It's not a personal insult to tell someone they're confused. You're confused. There isn't a generous interpretation on the planet that makes your analogy useful.
- soco 4y ago
  Maybe if we compared the market size of the Pokemon cards trading with the crypto trading, and also the risks of one compared to the other, we might get a hint why one is in the spotlights while the other not. Not all problems can and have to be addressed at once, so having a priority list to apply your limited resources makes only sense.

jimbob45 4y ago

You’re implying the government doesn’t regulate any of those other activities?

aardvarkr 4y ago

Gee wiz, it’s not like “rug pulls” exist. That’s definitely not a thing that would ever happen and no way would there ever need to be regulation to prevent gullible people from being scammed.

mrtksn 4y ago

AFAIK horse races and slot machines are regulated, so they are required to operate within a framework. This "guarantees" that you are not investing your money on rigged horse games or on slot machines misrepresenting your odds of winning or outright lying to you. IMHO the correct reaction to this should be to make regulation requirements accessible and manageable so that the overhead is not prohibitive to smaller entrepreneurs. No regulations will create lemon markets and lemon markets don't self correct because the people who turn in it into lemon markets can just walk away rich.

skywhopper 4y ago

Almost everything you listed is heavily regulated. Why shouldn’t crypto be regulated as well?

thepasswordis 4y ago
Can you link me to the regulatory body that oversees sneaker markets and sneaker exchanges? My teenage kids will be very interested in reading this.
- skywhopper 4y ago
  I did say “almost”. But in general in the US, the FTC regulates interstate commerce. IANAL, but for an overview of e-commerce regulations (assuming you’re talking about online sneaker exchanges), check out https://iclg.com/practice-areas/digital-business-laws-and-regulations/usa https://iclg.com/practice-areas/digital-business-laws-and-re....

throw1234651234 4y ago

It protects you from investing in private companies like SpaceX IF YOU ARE POOR too, you are welcome!

MagicMoonlight 4y ago

The slot machine is regulated so that it has fixed odds and isn’t rigged against specific players