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"The full feature set, including connection blocking, extended traffic history time ranges, advanced display and filtering options and more is available as an i

"The full feature set, including connection blocking, extended traffic history time ranges, advanced display and filtering options and more is available as an in-app purchase." So this means as a company using MDM, I cannot purchase it for all my employees. MacOS devs who see IAP and subscriptions as the only purchase paths are leaving corporate purchases on the table. We choose software we can pay for. We are fine if it's priced fairly to support the developer and the work to get to the next version. We are fine paying for the next version too. But IAP or subs paid for by company? Apple itself doesn't support that on Macs managed using their corp device management. (And no, the user cannot buy it and expense it either, IAP/subs are disallowed on managed Apple IDs.) Indie MacOS devs, all you have to do is also list a full retail version. You will have buyers. $2.99/month sub also sold $79 full price and a major update each 2 years with a new full retail version number? You will still have buyers, and you'll have the cash now, instead of over the 2 years.

jiveturkey 4y ago
https://www.obdev.at/products/littlesnitch/order.html https://www.obdev.at/products/littlesnitch/order.html
- mattl 4y ago
  This doesn’t contain the mini product
  - memsom 4y ago
    The UI does look different, but functionality looks the same.
  - jiveturkey 4y ago
    The parent didn't want the mini product. He wanted the full paid version (what you get if you do the IAP in the mini product).
    - mattl 4y ago
      That’s still the mini product, just the paid version of it I believe
      - jiveturkey 4y ago
        Now you're splitting hairs though.
inconceivable 4y ago
right, i'm sure this guy is going to turn his company into a very specific type of enterprise software vendor just because you want him to.
- vaxman 4y ago
  What OP is talkin’ about is “The Way” that Apple requires such devs to interface with its (not their) Business customers via its AppStore. Mac-only devs do have to cater to those customers whether they have them direct or resell thru MacAppStore, or they don’t make it very long. The problem with selling direct is that the Business customers all want the conveniences of only dealing with a single vendor (the Apple) since that’s possible now (via the MacAppStore). Platform gatekeepers in 2023 should simply vet third-party app stores and award them a Certificate once they pass anti-Fraud. The hardware itself should otherwise run open source firmware that only enforces UL/FCC certification requirements and basic UI standards (be they audio, video, or network). If Apple wants to go beyond that, they can setup Claris or something with its own such Certificate to compete with Amazon and all the other potential third-party ecosystems. This hunk of garbage may look ridiculous, but cast it in an Al custom NC enclosure with miniLED and an m2ultra and… https://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/brother-geobook-nb-80c-personal-1878927314 https://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/brother-geobook-nb-80...
- mrzool 4y ago
  > turn his company into a very specific type of enterprise software They would just need to release a pro version of their app you can pay upfront in the App Store, and then release paid updates later following the same model. No need to "turn a company" into anything.
  - kybernetyk 4y ago
    > and then release paid updates later following the same model. How? Paid updates are not possible with the app store. If they were we wouldn't have to jump through those anti-user IAP and subscription hoops.
    - 4y ago
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
minusf 4y ago
is the non-mini version also not acceptable? that's what i use and it has no iap.
mrzool 4y ago
I have the same exact same issue. Managed Apple IDs are a joke, the only use I have for them is to backup the contacts of my users so that when they get a new device they get their email autocompletion back. Keychain sync is disabled. Using the App Store in any capacity is impossible. There's absolutely no way to use in-app purchases/subscriptions. I got almost laughed at by an Apple rep the other day when I asked if it was somehow possible, as an Apple Business administrator, to purchase extra iCloud storage space for a user. This is a great article to send to those developers that only use IAP to license the complete version of their apps: https://blog.kandji.io/in-app-purchases-for-enterprise-buyers https://blog.kandji.io/in-app-purchases-for-enterprise-buyer...
- wkat4242 4y ago
  Yeah managed Apple IDs don't work for most enterprises as they require the email and UPN to be the same. In our configuration this is different for a very good reason. We're not going to change 200.000 users just because Apple doesn't support something. Also manually resolving duplicate accounts at this scale is impossible. Managed Apple IDs were a nice idea but the implementation sucks. I was hoping they'd fix them after release but it's been like 4 years now and it hasn't happened.
- luckman212 4y ago
  Ran into the same issue recently implementing managed AppleIDs. I couldn't believe it. No way to purchase >5GB of iCloud storage for staff using these IDs WTF!? Is anyone aware of a workaround for this?
kybernetyk 4y ago
The problem is: you can't do upgrade pricing in the app store. So your users would have to pay full price for a 2.0 upgrade. You could of course buy outside the app store - but you don't want that. And I don't want that, too (as a dev selling my software). Purchase orders are a PITA and I have been shafted by enterprise more than once. They get their licenses, I'm not getting my money because they just don't pay. Sucks to be me. As much as I don't like what apple is doing with their app stores I hate enterprise even more. I don't want enterprise as a customer - no matter how much they promise to pay me. (And that sentiment is pretty universal with anyone who had to deal with enterprise customers). Sucks to be you, I guess.
- Terretta 4y ago
  > The problem is: you can't do upgrade pricing in the app store. That is not a real problem. Many apps handle this by checking for a prior version and giving a discount (see Omni or Affinity approach), by having an upgrade window (e.g. 1Password approach before switching to subs outside app store), or by just charging full freight again (which nobody who values software actually minds, and enterprises that budget full retail software per person/year anyway definitely don't even think about). If you charge $X a month over time and think that's fair, you can charge $X * 24 every two years, and let people who dislike the upgrade treadmill just sit on the old version till iOS APIs shift out from under them. In the meantime, you had the two years cash up front which funds future development. > They get their licenses, I'm not getting my money because they just don't pay. Sucks to be me. What are you talking about? The Apple Business Manager UI is a web based app store, one searches for the app, clicks to pay full retail, and you get your full money, immediately, the same as you get your IAP or sub. Meanwhile, the app is bought in bulk, assigned to the employee base, and you just sold 15,000 copies at retail by having a full price version when you otherwise couldn't sell any. You don't talk to the enterprise and more importantly, I don't have to talk to you, or any other indie dev with weird bespoke purchasing processes not already approved by the enterprise procurement and expense systems.
  - foooorsyth 4y ago
    > or by just charging full freight again But is this possible with a one-time-full-price app in the App Store? It’s not, right? Once someone pays for your app, they get all updates forever. I think that’s what the person you were replying to was getting at. Basically, there are 3 major purchase models for software: 1) I’m buying a forever license 2) I’m buying this major version only 3) I’m subscribing to this software on a monthly/yearly basis The App Store only seems to support 1) and 3), but not 2). If you want to do 2), you have to roll it yourself outside of Apple’s infrastructure. Which means sending your own invoices, setting up your own key mechanisms, and all of that associated pain
sleepybrett 4y ago
Little Snitch Mini seems to be almost a demo for Little Snitch, which you can buy outright with a license up front. So buy that for your employees.

jiveturkey 4y ago

https://www.obdev.at/products/littlesnitch/order.html https://www.obdev.at/products/littlesnitch/order.html

mattl 4y ago
This doesn’t contain the mini product
- memsom 4y ago
  The UI does look different, but functionality looks the same.
- jiveturkey 4y ago
  The parent didn't want the mini product. He wanted the full paid version (what you get if you do the IAP in the mini product).
  - mattl 4y ago
    That’s still the mini product, just the paid version of it I believe
    - jiveturkey 4y ago
      Now you're splitting hairs though.

inconceivable 4y ago

right, i'm sure this guy is going to turn his company into a very specific type of enterprise software vendor just because you want him to.

vaxman 4y ago
What OP is talkin’ about is “The Way” that Apple requires such devs to interface with its (not their) Business customers via its AppStore. Mac-only devs do have to cater to those customers whether they have them direct or resell thru MacAppStore, or they don’t make it very long. The problem with selling direct is that the Business customers all want the conveniences of only dealing with a single vendor (the Apple) since that’s possible now (via the MacAppStore). Platform gatekeepers in 2023 should simply vet third-party app stores and award them a Certificate once they pass anti-Fraud. The hardware itself should otherwise run open source firmware that only enforces UL/FCC certification requirements and basic UI standards (be they audio, video, or network). If Apple wants to go beyond that, they can setup Claris or something with its own such Certificate to compete with Amazon and all the other potential third-party ecosystems. This hunk of garbage may look ridiculous, but cast it in an Al custom NC enclosure with miniLED and an m2ultra and… https://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/brother-geobook-nb-80c-personal-1878927314 https://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/brother-geobook-nb-80...
mrzool 4y ago
> turn his company into a very specific type of enterprise software They would just need to release a pro version of their app you can pay upfront in the App Store, and then release paid updates later following the same model. No need to "turn a company" into anything.
- kybernetyk 4y ago
  > and then release paid updates later following the same model. How? Paid updates are not possible with the app store. If they were we wouldn't have to jump through those anti-user IAP and subscription hoops.
  - 4y ago

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

minusf 4y ago

is the non-mini version also not acceptable? that's what i use and it has no iap.

mrzool 4y ago

I have the same exact same issue. Managed Apple IDs are a joke, the only use I have for them is to backup the contacts of my users so that when they get a new device they get their email autocompletion back. Keychain sync is disabled. Using the App Store in any capacity is impossible. There's absolutely no way to use in-app purchases/subscriptions. I got almost laughed at by an Apple rep the other day when I asked if it was somehow possible, as an Apple Business administrator, to purchase extra iCloud storage space for a user. This is a great article to send to those developers that only use IAP to license the complete version of their apps: https://blog.kandji.io/in-app-purchases-for-enterprise-buyers https://blog.kandji.io/in-app-purchases-for-enterprise-buyer...

wkat4242 4y ago
Yeah managed Apple IDs don't work for most enterprises as they require the email and UPN to be the same. In our configuration this is different for a very good reason. We're not going to change 200.000 users just because Apple doesn't support something. Also manually resolving duplicate accounts at this scale is impossible. Managed Apple IDs were a nice idea but the implementation sucks. I was hoping they'd fix them after release but it's been like 4 years now and it hasn't happened.
luckman212 4y ago
Ran into the same issue recently implementing managed AppleIDs. I couldn't believe it. No way to purchase >5GB of iCloud storage for staff using these IDs WTF!? Is anyone aware of a workaround for this?

kybernetyk 4y ago

The problem is: you can't do upgrade pricing in the app store. So your users would have to pay full price for a 2.0 upgrade. You could of course buy outside the app store - but you don't want that. And I don't want that, too (as a dev selling my software). Purchase orders are a PITA and I have been shafted by enterprise more than once. They get their licenses, I'm not getting my money because they just don't pay. Sucks to be me. As much as I don't like what apple is doing with their app stores I hate enterprise even more. I don't want enterprise as a customer - no matter how much they promise to pay me. (And that sentiment is pretty universal with anyone who had to deal with enterprise customers). Sucks to be you, I guess.

Terretta 4y ago
> The problem is: you can't do upgrade pricing in the app store. That is not a real problem. Many apps handle this by checking for a prior version and giving a discount (see Omni or Affinity approach), by having an upgrade window (e.g. 1Password approach before switching to subs outside app store), or by just charging full freight again (which nobody who values software actually minds, and enterprises that budget full retail software per person/year anyway definitely don't even think about). If you charge $X a month over time and think that's fair, you can charge $X * 24 every two years, and let people who dislike the upgrade treadmill just sit on the old version till iOS APIs shift out from under them. In the meantime, you had the two years cash up front which funds future development. > They get their licenses, I'm not getting my money because they just don't pay. Sucks to be me. What are you talking about? The Apple Business Manager UI is a web based app store, one searches for the app, clicks to pay full retail, and you get your full money, immediately, the same as you get your IAP or sub. Meanwhile, the app is bought in bulk, assigned to the employee base, and you just sold 15,000 copies at retail by having a full price version when you otherwise couldn't sell any. You don't talk to the enterprise and more importantly, I don't have to talk to you, or any other indie dev with weird bespoke purchasing processes not already approved by the enterprise procurement and expense systems.
- foooorsyth 4y ago
  > or by just charging full freight again But is this possible with a one-time-full-price app in the App Store? It’s not, right? Once someone pays for your app, they get all updates forever. I think that’s what the person you were replying to was getting at. Basically, there are 3 major purchase models for software: 1) I’m buying a forever license 2) I’m buying this major version only 3) I’m subscribing to this software on a monthly/yearly basis The App Store only seems to support 1) and 3), but not 2). If you want to do 2), you have to roll it yourself outside of Apple’s infrastructure. Which means sending your own invoices, setting up your own key mechanisms, and all of that associated pain

sleepybrett 4y ago

Little Snitch Mini seems to be almost a demo for Little Snitch, which you can buy outright with a license up front. So buy that for your employees.