6 ms·

Dungeons & Developers

82 points by luu 4y ago

stasmo 4y ago
I think we probably all spend a good chunk of time in the shower having imaginary conversations to reimagine history. Maybe I need to spend more time imagining conversations that haven’t happened yet.
- ocimbote 4y ago
  I spend a signifiant amount of time imagining other people's arguments and questions rather than sharpening my arguments. Eventually, the amount of knowledge is the same but I am glad I discovered I iterate over 2 stages of work: 1/ proactive, meaning I lay down a proposal based on a situation and then 2/ simulated reactive, meaning I do my best to discover what the audience will want, answer, contradict. Once I am done iterating on that, I usually deliver my work to an intended test audience. Then after that, to the target audience. So yes, imagining conversations that have no happened is really helpful and a skill to build. Just don't rely on that solely, because people are weird and unpredictable and you might very well be off :)
ianbutler 4y ago
This is good advice. I've interviewed with YC 3 times. I practiced rapid fire questions about my then business from multiple angles with multiple different people. It's a 10 minute conversation, the first two times it was worth 150k and the last time was worth 500k. (Not counting the intangibles and immense benefit to later stages of the business) Not practicing would have been a mistake. Anticipating the types of questions we were going to be asked and prepping in a series of mock interviews with a few different YC founders who have also experienced the interview help to make the answers reflexive and such that we could steer the conversation to our strengths. We didn't get in, but it wasn't our ability to talk about the business that did us in, based on our feedback. Practicing for high stakes one offs helps you keep things tight and see weak spots before actually having to do the thing.
- Jensson 4y ago
  > the first two times it was worth 150k and the last time was worth 500k > We didn't get in How was your interview prep worth money if you failed anyway?
  - unixgoddess 4y ago
    i think it means that the business deal would have brought in that amount of money if successful, not that he paid it for training. it was worth training because of all the money he could have received.
    - bruce343434 4y ago
      > could have received. But he didn't
      - cbloom 4y ago
        If I somehow had the opportunity to do one of those things where you get one attempt at making a three-pointer for a million dollar prize, then I'd be well served by shooting a few over the week leading up to the event. I'm still unlikely to make the shot on the day but the expected value of the time spent on those practise shots is still definitely going to be worth it
        lupire 4y ago
        But would you practice tying your shoes instead of shooting the shot? Poster said they they failed for reasons other than their Q&A. Maybe they should have spent less practice on window dressing and more on substance. We don't know.
        pcthrowaway 4y ago
        I assume that meant VC didn't think their idea was lucrative enough, despite loving their pitch.
zabzonk 4y ago
Bloody hell. > the orcs look up at you, and one says “You’re late.” what does this have to do with "role playing"? Except there are orcs. > Given that, you’ll be either delighted or horrified to learn that roleplaying is a powerful tool in your career development toolbox, and you should be using it more often – just don’t call it roleplaying. What? i didn't call it (whatever "it" is) that - you did. > (sic) paragraphs of waffle here > landing on the literal moon as opposed to some other, non-literal moon? > Although you can rehearse the monologue portions of these situations alone what other ways are there of having a monologue? > I’m talking about roleplaying here far from obviously? > Running a social simulation doesn’t need to be complicated Sorry, we are techies - why would we be running a "social simulation"? At this point, I just gave up on commenting because I was too cross. Worst article I have ever read linked to here, by far. Why does everything here get upvoted?
- labster 4y ago
  I was at least expecting the orcs to have a pie. 0/10 would not play this module Article TL;DR: if you have to perform in front of people you should rehearse beforehand.
- lliamander 4y ago
  > what does this have to do with "role playing"? Except there are orcs. "Role-playing" has multiple connotations. The author was playing off of those. > as opposed to some other, non-literal moon? "Literal" or "literally" is sometimes used for emphasis
  - Supermancho 4y ago
    Notably because of the world of fantasy and modern reality, in the article, are being mixed.
- pcthrowaway 4y ago
  Most role playing doesn't have orcs? I've had some therapy sessions where we did some role playing (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Role-playing#Psychology https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Role-playing#Psychology), and if there were supposed to be orcs, I want my money back.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
sklargh 4y ago
Related to some of the high-stakes scenarios discussed in the post. If you advance in large organizations you’re likely going to encounter a strategy cell or unit. Get into a mutually beneficial relationship with these people. If they’re effective, they’re expert communicators and are the primary filter through which information from the operating units passes to senior corporate leadership. They can help you prepare for these kinds of situations and interpret the needs/political landscapes of meetings accurately. A friendly strategy leader is also a 99th percentile slide wizard and can offer vast optimization. edit, numeracy
- honeybadger1 4y ago
  Completely agree with this, I am at the point in my own career where I am a part of one of these units in an organization valued at around $16B. It involves stake holders from product, c-suite, etc. People in these groups are socially sterile in my viewpoint while working an active goal or problem and it has been a big eye-opener for me to realize that the plans within plans are actually not engineered from a position of malice, just strategic thinking. It's business warfare.
- le-mark 4y ago
  I really lived this once. I was an engineering manager of a team that maintained an app that was used extensively by a particular business unit. My understanding was the app was a money maker because customers contracted to have people use this (it was a BPO unit). I was tasked with providing a demo to the new CTO and a few other execs. We had worked hard for a couple of years and really improved the app a lot. I got through the demo and.. silence, nothing. They moved on to other things. I found this to be very very odd. I found out months later that all the revenue from the app was booked to another group, and my team was a huge drag on the org we were in. As such, our hard work was not rewarded, raises were pitiful. Most the team quit, lay offs, then I quit. So yeah it’s good to know what’s going on.
  - Joker_vD 4y ago
    > I found out months later that all the revenue from the app was booked to another group, and my team was a huge drag on the org we were in. We need large firms to be organized in more market-like ways, otherwise you get those ridiculous command-economy warts.
vertis 4y ago
Midjourney is not confused about what an Orc looks like (I know, I got distracted by the generated image) https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1014498456422854696/1088788180830003310/vertis_You_open_the_door_and_see_three_orcs_wearing_business_su_04efd7e2-bf3c-4aa5-b9fb-19d7a91d6349.png https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1014498456422854696/1... (Midjourney prompt: You open the door and see three orcs wearing business suits. They’re seated at a fine oak board room table. The orcs look up at you, and one says “You’re late.” --ar 2:1)
- pcthrowaway 4y ago
  Why does it think they look like Ogres?
  - danaris 4y ago
    Why do you think those images look like ogres? They look like fairly common portrayals of orcs to me.
    - pcthrowaway 4y ago
      Because Orcs look like this https://lotr.fandom.com/wiki/Orcs?file=AzogPines2.jpg https://lotr.fandom.com/wiki/Orcs?file=AzogPines2.jpg and ogres look like this https://www.gameogre.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/07/Ogre-Empire-696x393.jpg https://www.gameogre.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/07/Ogre-Emp... In actuality, I was just joking about the idea that a ML art tool can get "Orc"s wrong since there's such variation in how they're conceptualized, same with ogres
      - account42 4y ago
        > Because Orcs look like this https://lotr.fandom.com/wiki/Orcs?file=AzogPines2.jpg https://lotr.fandom.com/wiki/Orcs?file=AzogPines2.jpg Middle Earth Orcs (aka degenerate Elves) look like that. There are other popular fantasy settings. The only common thread is "strongly built usually ugly humanoid with often green or otherwise non-human skin color and perhaps pointy ears".
dullcrisp 4y ago
Nathan Fielder did a show about this: https://imdb.com/title/tt10802170/ https://imdb.com/title/tt10802170/

82 points by luu 4y ago

I think we probably all spend a good chunk of time in the shower having imaginary conversations to reimagine history. Maybe I need to spend more time imagining conversations that haven’t happened yet.

ocimbote 4y ago
I spend a signifiant amount of time imagining other people's arguments and questions rather than sharpening my arguments. Eventually, the amount of knowledge is the same but I am glad I discovered I iterate over 2 stages of work: 1/ proactive, meaning I lay down a proposal based on a situation and then 2/ simulated reactive, meaning I do my best to discover what the audience will want, answer, contradict. Once I am done iterating on that, I usually deliver my work to an intended test audience. Then after that, to the target audience. So yes, imagining conversations that have no happened is really helpful and a skill to build. Just don't rely on that solely, because people are weird and unpredictable and you might very well be off :)

ianbutler 4y ago

This is good advice. I've interviewed with YC 3 times. I practiced rapid fire questions about my then business from multiple angles with multiple different people. It's a 10 minute conversation, the first two times it was worth 150k and the last time was worth 500k. (Not counting the intangibles and immense benefit to later stages of the business) Not practicing would have been a mistake. Anticipating the types of questions we were going to be asked and prepping in a series of mock interviews with a few different YC founders who have also experienced the interview help to make the answers reflexive and such that we could steer the conversation to our strengths. We didn't get in, but it wasn't our ability to talk about the business that did us in, based on our feedback. Practicing for high stakes one offs helps you keep things tight and see weak spots before actually having to do the thing.

Jensson 4y ago
> the first two times it was worth 150k and the last time was worth 500k > We didn't get in How was your interview prep worth money if you failed anyway?
- unixgoddess 4y ago
  i think it means that the business deal would have brought in that amount of money if successful, not that he paid it for training. it was worth training because of all the money he could have received.
  - bruce343434 4y ago
    > could have received. But he didn't
    - cbloom 4y ago
      If I somehow had the opportunity to do one of those things where you get one attempt at making a three-pointer for a million dollar prize, then I'd be well served by shooting a few over the week leading up to the event. I'm still unlikely to make the shot on the day but the expected value of the time spent on those practise shots is still definitely going to be worth it
      - lupire 4y ago
        But would you practice tying your shoes instead of shooting the shot? Poster said they they failed for reasons other than their Q&A. Maybe they should have spent less practice on window dressing and more on substance. We don't know.
        pcthrowaway 4y ago
        I assume that meant VC didn't think their idea was lucrative enough, despite loving their pitch.

zabzonk 4y ago

Bloody hell. > the orcs look up at you, and one says “You’re late.” what does this have to do with "role playing"? Except there are orcs. > Given that, you’ll be either delighted or horrified to learn that roleplaying is a powerful tool in your career development toolbox, and you should be using it more often – just don’t call it roleplaying. What? i didn't call it (whatever "it" is) that - you did. > (sic) paragraphs of waffle here > landing on the literal moon as opposed to some other, non-literal moon? > Although you can rehearse the monologue portions of these situations alone what other ways are there of having a monologue? > I’m talking about roleplaying here far from obviously? > Running a social simulation doesn’t need to be complicated Sorry, we are techies - why would we be running a "social simulation"? At this point, I just gave up on commenting because I was too cross. Worst article I have ever read linked to here, by far. Why does everything here get upvoted?

labster 4y ago
I was at least expecting the orcs to have a pie. 0/10 would not play this module Article TL;DR: if you have to perform in front of people you should rehearse beforehand.
lliamander 4y ago
> what does this have to do with "role playing"? Except there are orcs. "Role-playing" has multiple connotations. The author was playing off of those. > as opposed to some other, non-literal moon? "Literal" or "literally" is sometimes used for emphasis
- Supermancho 4y ago
  Notably because of the world of fantasy and modern reality, in the article, are being mixed.
pcthrowaway 4y ago
Most role playing doesn't have orcs? I've had some therapy sessions where we did some role playing (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Role-playing#Psychology https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Role-playing#Psychology), and if there were supposed to be orcs, I want my money back.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

sklargh 4y ago

Related to some of the high-stakes scenarios discussed in the post. If you advance in large organizations you’re likely going to encounter a strategy cell or unit. Get into a mutually beneficial relationship with these people. If they’re effective, they’re expert communicators and are the primary filter through which information from the operating units passes to senior corporate leadership. They can help you prepare for these kinds of situations and interpret the needs/political landscapes of meetings accurately. A friendly strategy leader is also a 99th percentile slide wizard and can offer vast optimization. edit, numeracy

honeybadger1 4y ago
Completely agree with this, I am at the point in my own career where I am a part of one of these units in an organization valued at around $16B. It involves stake holders from product, c-suite, etc. People in these groups are socially sterile in my viewpoint while working an active goal or problem and it has been a big eye-opener for me to realize that the plans within plans are actually not engineered from a position of malice, just strategic thinking. It's business warfare.
le-mark 4y ago
I really lived this once. I was an engineering manager of a team that maintained an app that was used extensively by a particular business unit. My understanding was the app was a money maker because customers contracted to have people use this (it was a BPO unit). I was tasked with providing a demo to the new CTO and a few other execs. We had worked hard for a couple of years and really improved the app a lot. I got through the demo and.. silence, nothing. They moved on to other things. I found this to be very very odd. I found out months later that all the revenue from the app was booked to another group, and my team was a huge drag on the org we were in. As such, our hard work was not rewarded, raises were pitiful. Most the team quit, lay offs, then I quit. So yeah it’s good to know what’s going on.
- Joker_vD 4y ago
  > I found out months later that all the revenue from the app was booked to another group, and my team was a huge drag on the org we were in. We need large firms to be organized in more market-like ways, otherwise you get those ridiculous command-economy warts.

vertis 4y ago

Midjourney is not confused about what an Orc looks like (I know, I got distracted by the generated image) https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1014498456422854696/1088788180830003310/vertis_You_open_the_door_and_see_three_orcs_wearing_business_su_04efd7e2-bf3c-4aa5-b9fb-19d7a91d6349.png https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1014498456422854696/1... (Midjourney prompt: You open the door and see three orcs wearing business suits. They’re seated at a fine oak board room table. The orcs look up at you, and one says “You’re late.” --ar 2:1)

pcthrowaway 4y ago
Why does it think they look like Ogres?
- danaris 4y ago
  Why do you think those images look like ogres? They look like fairly common portrayals of orcs to me.
  - pcthrowaway 4y ago
    Because Orcs look like this https://lotr.fandom.com/wiki/Orcs?file=AzogPines2.jpg https://lotr.fandom.com/wiki/Orcs?file=AzogPines2.jpg and ogres look like this https://www.gameogre.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/07/Ogre-Empire-696x393.jpg https://www.gameogre.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/07/Ogre-Emp... In actuality, I was just joking about the idea that a ML art tool can get "Orc"s wrong since there's such variation in how they're conceptualized, same with ogres
    - account42 4y ago
      > Because Orcs look like this https://lotr.fandom.com/wiki/Orcs?file=AzogPines2.jpg https://lotr.fandom.com/wiki/Orcs?file=AzogPines2.jpg Middle Earth Orcs (aka degenerate Elves) look like that. There are other popular fantasy settings. The only common thread is "strongly built usually ugly humanoid with often green or otherwise non-human skin color and perhaps pointy ears".

dullcrisp 4y ago

Nathan Fielder did a show about this: https://imdb.com/title/tt10802170/ https://imdb.com/title/tt10802170/