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No it doesn’t. They’ve literally told them in the past when they were creating financial products that they were securities. Their entire schtik is to say “We
by cududa 4y ago
No it doesn’t. They’ve literally told them in the past when they were creating financial products that they were securities. Their entire schtik is to say
“We called it something different so it’s not a security.”
SEC: “Yes it is.”
Coinbase: “The SEC won’t engage with us and tell us what aspects of our business is a security.”
SEC: “1) that’s not how securities law works, you’re the one that has to hire lawyers 2) we already told you you were offering a security”
Coinbase: “We’re being persecuted!”
- yokem55 4y agoWell, it is something of a he said/she said between Coinbase and the SEC. But the Judge in the Voyager bankruptcy case had similar concerns about the clarity provided by the SEC - https://twitter.com/BillHughesDC/status/1636069735006699523 https://twitter.com/BillHughesDC/status/1636069735006699523
- Alex3917 4y ago> Well, it is something of a he said/she said between Coinbase and the SEC. Not really. The law has been exactly the same since the 1940s. Apparently though Coinbase has decided to go all in on SBF's strategy of pretending to be too dumb to understand the law. Coinbase arguing that they should be allowed to sell illegal unregistered securities because the SEC said they could sell securities is like CVS arguing that should be allowed to sell cocaine because the government told them they could be a drug store.
- cududa 4y agoOr Nasdaq claiming that moving orders from paper ledgers to computers means they’re no longer a securities exchange. Because reasons.
- iramiller 4y agoWell the SEC certainly has one point of view. Unfortunately the CFTC has another view and they both can’t be right so which part of the federal governance applies here? https://www.cftc.gov/digitalassets/index.htm https://www.cftc.gov/digitalassets/index.htm This ambiguity is why clarity is needed. In the famous words of Matt Levine everything is securities fraud. It seems obvious that some legal clarity is actually required here.
- Alex3917 4y ago> Unfortunately the CFTC has another view and they both can’t be right Of course they can. Whether something is a commodity has absolutely nothing to do with whether something is a security. They are completely orthogonal concepts.
- HWR_14 4y agoWait, what? I thought a commodity was corn and a security was stock and everything in this discussion was about arguing which it was closer to. What is a commodity then?
- trompetenaccoun 4y agoThe above is obviously false. This is why you should not learn about finance and economics on HN, many users have no idea what they write. Something is either a security or a commodity, these are legal terms and treated differently by law. The status may be undermined but it can not be both.
- choma1 4y agoWhy can't they both be right? Futures aren't securities except in certain cases, and if bitcoin is a currency then bitcoin futures wouldn't be under SEC jurisdiction.
- junofan 4y ago“Commodity” is shorthand for “non-security commodity” in CFTC-speak.
- EFreethought 4y agoI thought SBF's strategy was that everybody other than him is too dumb to understand the law.
- harold_b 4y ago[dead]
- stickfigure 4y agoIf it's so clear to you, maybe you can answer the question?
- cududa 4y agoI’m not an expert or a lawyer but it seems pretty clear. Going by what the SEC has literally told them: Coinbase taking money from depositors, loaning it out, and giving the depositors interest from the loan, is a security product. Page 1 of the Securities Exchange Act of 1934: https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/COMPS-1885/pdf/COMPS-1885.pdf https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/COMPS-1885/pdf/COMPS-188... It… really doesn’t seem complicated. The SEC told Coinbase they’d be in violation of security laws if they expanded these products, last summer. And did so publicly. I don’t understand how this could not be more clear. The first page of the securities act and the remaining of the paragraph that goes the page 2 describes exactly what they’re doing, and defines it as a security. The SEC has told them this is a security. I’m genuinely baffled how people are still amplifying this “well they won’t tell us what part is a security!” They’ve been explicitly clear. The law is not hard to understand - just read the above link for 2 pages. I feel like I’m taking crazy pills here.
- Animats 4y agoRight. How could "Coinbase Earn" not be a security?
- cududa 4y agoBased on comments here, because they called it “staking as a service”. But apparently that nomenclature bypasses this very clear and explicit definition “The term ‘‘exchange’’ means any organization, associa- tion, or group of persons, whether incorporated or unincor- porated, which constitutes, maintains, or provides a market place or facilities for bringing together purchasers and sellers of securities or for otherwise performing with respect to securi- ties the functions commonly performed by a stock exchange as that term is generally understood, and includes the market place and the market facilities maintained by such exchange.”
- pbreit 4y agoSo which assets on coinbase do you believe are securities?
- nonethewiser 4y agoIf the SEC won’t identify the alleged security then I think it’s different than what you’d characterize. The SEC should have a more collaborative spirit and share so that Coinbase can follow regulations or make their case. If the SEC is actually withholding this information they are acting in bad faith and operating more like a mob shaking someone down.
- TylerE 4y agoOr coin base could actually hire and listen to them like a business trying to operate legitimately and honestly. Instead it’s the usual crypto playbook of “move fast and break things” and then play dumb.
- thepasswordis 4y agoDo you have any evidence to back this up? It seems like coinbase has been trying to work with the SEC since the very beginning. Being 100% legit is kindof their whole schtick.
- TylerE 4y agoThe SEC told them last year that staking was a security and now they’re being all surprisedpikachu and pretending they don’t know what this is about.
- aikinai 4y agoYou're being intentionally disingenuous. Coinbase's entire value is tied to them being the safest, most legal crypto brokerage.
- headsoup 4y agoIf they're trying to be that then they probably shouldn't be offering shitcoins like "I will poop it NFT" or "PonziCOIN".
- 4y ago
- ensignavenger 4y agoI am pretty sure coinbase has hired lawyers.
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]