3 ms·

are you claiming the system is working just fine...we just have to spend some amount of our lives combating overt fraud and just sucking up the general level of

are you claiming the system is working just fine...we just have to spend some amount of our lives combating overt fraud and just sucking up the general level of poor quality that isn't strictly fraudulent I'm checking out. you enjoy that.

Klinky 4y ago
I think he's saying consumers need to actually hold sellers accountable for not following through. Though this is arguably one of the biggest reasons market capitalism often gives us poor results. People tolerate too much, are gullible, and/or have too little time/money to hold business accountable.
- mistrial9 4y ago
  Deterimined commercial abusers know how to delay, lie and deflect . It is a daily occurrence.
idopmstuff 4y ago
What is the alternative you're suggesting. I'm saying that it is inevitable in life that when dealing with businesses, you'll end up in bad situations. It sucks, but the point is that you have relatively straightforward recourse, which is good. I encourage you to try to improve the whole system, but I don't know how to do that, so I'll use the tools I have.
- convolvatron 4y ago
  I make my furniture...and its exactly now nice I want it. sorry that doesn't work for you.
  - minitoar 4y ago
    I imagine most people don’t have the time, space, or skill to do this.
  - ahepp 4y ago
    I'm struggling to understand this. First you seem to say it's unrealistic for consumers to be expected to charge back their credit card if they're defrauded and a better system needs to be found. Ok, I'm listening. I agree it sucks to have to deal with this stuff on your own. I don't really understand who else is going to do that, and what realistic measures could be taken to stop this kind of bad behavior without grinding all commerce to a halt. I'm definitely open to ideas though. Second you say your solution to the problem is to make your own furniture? As if people for whom filing a credit card chargeback would be a burden have the time or skill to build all their own furniture from scratch?
    - convolvatron 4y ago
      no. I think you're all getting screwed. that's my solution. I certainly don't think it scales, but this works much better for me. I'm really sick of ordering stuff expecting it to be reasonable and have to return it, or throw it out, or try to make do. I'm just objecting to your statement that 'everything is just fine'. its not.
karaterobot 4y ago
Can you check out of every similar interaction? You mention downthread that you make your own furniture, so don't have to deal with this particular situation. Can you see that that's not a scalable solution for every person and every product or service? If so, then you can empathize with the commenter you replied to.
dang 4y ago
Could you please review the site guidelines (https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html) and use HN in the intended spirit? Note these ones: "Please respond to the strongest plausible interpretation of what someone says, not a weaker one that's easier to criticize. Assume good faith." "Don't be snarky." "Edit out swipes."

Klinky 4y ago

I think he's saying consumers need to actually hold sellers accountable for not following through. Though this is arguably one of the biggest reasons market capitalism often gives us poor results. People tolerate too much, are gullible, and/or have too little time/money to hold business accountable.

mistrial9 4y ago
Deterimined commercial abusers know how to delay, lie and deflect . It is a daily occurrence.

idopmstuff 4y ago

What is the alternative you're suggesting. I'm saying that it is inevitable in life that when dealing with businesses, you'll end up in bad situations. It sucks, but the point is that you have relatively straightforward recourse, which is good. I encourage you to try to improve the whole system, but I don't know how to do that, so I'll use the tools I have.

convolvatron 4y ago
I make my furniture...and its exactly now nice I want it. sorry that doesn't work for you.
- minitoar 4y ago
  I imagine most people don’t have the time, space, or skill to do this.
- ahepp 4y ago
  I'm struggling to understand this. First you seem to say it's unrealistic for consumers to be expected to charge back their credit card if they're defrauded and a better system needs to be found. Ok, I'm listening. I agree it sucks to have to deal with this stuff on your own. I don't really understand who else is going to do that, and what realistic measures could be taken to stop this kind of bad behavior without grinding all commerce to a halt. I'm definitely open to ideas though. Second you say your solution to the problem is to make your own furniture? As if people for whom filing a credit card chargeback would be a burden have the time or skill to build all their own furniture from scratch?
  - convolvatron 4y ago
    no. I think you're all getting screwed. that's my solution. I certainly don't think it scales, but this works much better for me. I'm really sick of ordering stuff expecting it to be reasonable and have to return it, or throw it out, or try to make do. I'm just objecting to your statement that 'everything is just fine'. its not.

karaterobot 4y ago

Can you check out of every similar interaction? You mention downthread that you make your own furniture, so don't have to deal with this particular situation. Can you see that that's not a scalable solution for every person and every product or service? If so, then you can empathize with the commenter you replied to.

dang 4y ago

Could you please review the site guidelines (https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html) and use HN in the intended spirit? Note these ones: "Please respond to the strongest plausible interpretation of what someone says, not a weaker one that's easier to criticize. Assume good faith." "Don't be snarky." "Edit out swipes."