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Exactly - I primarily write Java and fat-jars are great when developing apps for environments I control. But if I want to send an app to a friend it's a few add

Exactly - I primarily write Java and fat-jars are great when developing apps for environments I control. But if I want to send an app to a friend it's a few additional steps to make sure they have the correct version of Java, paths are setup correct, etc. This isn't always trivial if they already have a different version of Java and want things to play nice side by side. Just bundle everything into a native executable, so many little annoyances just disappear. From what I understand Java does have facilities to bundle the runtime now but I haven't had the opportunity to really play with it yet.

vips7L 4y ago
> From what I understand Java does have facilities to bundle jlink, jpackage, and if you need something complex you can use conveyor: https://hydraulic.software/index.html https://hydraulic.software/index.html
- mike_hearn 4y ago
  Or even if you need something simple :-) Sending little apps to friends is easy now just like it once was, the difference is that the friends don't need to know what runtime you use. Also not only for Java: Electron, Flutter and anything else works too. We have an internal version of Conveyor that can be used to push servers as well. It bundles the jvm, makes debs with auto-scanned dependencies, systemd integration is automatically set up, it's easy to run the server with the DynamicUser feature for sandboxing and it uploads/installs the packages for you via ssh. We use it for our own servers. There seems to be more interest these days in running servers without big cloud overheads, so maybe we should launch it? It's hard to know how much demand there is for this sort of thing, though it gets rid of the hassle of manually configuring systemd and copying files around.
ihateolives 4y ago
> But if I want to send an app to a friend it's a few additional steps to make sure they have the correct version of Java, paths are setup correct, etc My friends would do full stop and reverse at "install Java" step. It will just not fly with 99% of people. It's not 1999 anymore.
lenkite 4y ago
You can use Graal Native Image https://www.graalvm.org/22.0/reference-manual/native-image/ https://www.graalvm.org/22.0/reference-manual/native-image/ to produce a single native executable. Example of a Java Micro-service framework that has first class support for this is Quarkus (https://quarkus.io/ https://quarkus.io/). See https://quarkus.io/guides/building-native-image https://quarkus.io/guides/building-native-image For a plain Java app: "Use Maven to Build a Native Executable from a Java Application" https://www.graalvm.org/22.2/reference-manual/native-image/guides/use-native-image-maven-plugin/ https://www.graalvm.org/22.2/reference-manual/native-image/g...
pjmlp 4y ago
For 20 years that AOT compilers for Java exist, even if only available in commercial JDKs at enterprise prices (PTC, Aonix, Aicas, Excelsior, J/Rockit, Websphere RT). That alternative would be jlink, and GraalVM / OpenJ9 as free beer AOT.
- duskwuff 4y ago
  GCJ was a thing for a while, but was never really production-ready.

vips7L 4y ago

> From what I understand Java does have facilities to bundle jlink, jpackage, and if you need something complex you can use conveyor: https://hydraulic.software/index.html https://hydraulic.software/index.html

mike_hearn 4y ago
Or even if you need something simple :-) Sending little apps to friends is easy now just like it once was, the difference is that the friends don't need to know what runtime you use. Also not only for Java: Electron, Flutter and anything else works too. We have an internal version of Conveyor that can be used to push servers as well. It bundles the jvm, makes debs with auto-scanned dependencies, systemd integration is automatically set up, it's easy to run the server with the DynamicUser feature for sandboxing and it uploads/installs the packages for you via ssh. We use it for our own servers. There seems to be more interest these days in running servers without big cloud overheads, so maybe we should launch it? It's hard to know how much demand there is for this sort of thing, though it gets rid of the hassle of manually configuring systemd and copying files around.

ihateolives 4y ago

> But if I want to send an app to a friend it's a few additional steps to make sure they have the correct version of Java, paths are setup correct, etc My friends would do full stop and reverse at "install Java" step. It will just not fly with 99% of people. It's not 1999 anymore.

lenkite 4y ago

You can use Graal Native Image https://www.graalvm.org/22.0/reference-manual/native-image/ https://www.graalvm.org/22.0/reference-manual/native-image/ to produce a single native executable. Example of a Java Micro-service framework that has first class support for this is Quarkus (https://quarkus.io/ https://quarkus.io/). See https://quarkus.io/guides/building-native-image https://quarkus.io/guides/building-native-image For a plain Java app: "Use Maven to Build a Native Executable from a Java Application" https://www.graalvm.org/22.2/reference-manual/native-image/guides/use-native-image-maven-plugin/ https://www.graalvm.org/22.2/reference-manual/native-image/g...

pjmlp 4y ago

For 20 years that AOT compilers for Java exist, even if only available in commercial JDKs at enterprise prices (PTC, Aonix, Aicas, Excelsior, J/Rockit, Websphere RT). That alternative would be jlink, and GraalVM / OpenJ9 as free beer AOT.

duskwuff 4y ago
GCJ was a thing for a while, but was never really production-ready.