4 ms·

Anymore? When were we writing "deployable" software in the past?

by ElevenLathe 4y ago

marcosdumay 4y ago
You used to buy a disk, put it on your computer and run the thing there.
- ElevenLathe 4y ago
  Isn't that just "running" the software? To me, "deployment" implies some repeated process that actually wasn't especially valuable to automate or be very careful about when software was released once a year (and hence the reason it wasn't). Also, disks are a horrible way to deploy software. They have all the same problems of just distributing a random tarball: What operating system is it for? What version? Where do I copy the files? How do I get the OS to automatically start the service on startup? What version of make does it use? How about which libc and cc? You can say this stuff in the README (or printed docs) but isn't something more "deployable" when it's all machine-readable and can be reasoned about automatically? This is what package managers were invented for.
- xyzzy4747 4y ago
  My father told me a story about when he was in college, he had to find a book in the library catalogue with the program he wanted, order it and check it out, and then type it up and test/debug it. After that all his colleagues and professors wanted to borrow it as well. This was in the 70s.
zer00eyz 4y ago
I'll bite! We used to ship software, on discs, and we didn't have the Internet to update it. There is plenty of software out there that works via your linux distress package manager. Note that this isn't everything you can get from your package manager. Plenty of things that are available are broken or miersable to get working unless you get the container/vm version.
- tomcam 4y ago
  I remember those days well. It really meant you had to be careful with bugs and documentation. It is not clear to me that the we are winning with daily or multiple times daily release schedules at this point.
  - jrockway 4y ago
    Were people careful with bugs and documentation? I remember the Internet blowing up one day because every Windows install was sending every IP on the Internet a virus, and there was nothing anyone could do about it. (And yes, Unix also had similar worms, though they largely predate me!) Word used to crash and corrupt your entire novel. There was no online banking. I'm not sure the rose-colored glasses are a realistic take on changing software quality. Today, the tools are available to move quickly and maintain quality. You probably do what was months of manual testing every time you save a file, and certainly every time you commit a set of changes. There are fuzz testers to find the craziest bugs that no human could even imagine. There are robots that read your PR and point out common errors. HN really likes to pan on software quality, but "I don't like this feature" is not a bug per se, just a company you don't like. There are a lot of those, but there are more lines of code than ever, and a lot more stuff works than 30 years ago. I think we, as a field, are getting better.
    - tomcam 4y ago
      I ran a software company that predated the web. Yes, we were incredibly careful. When you ran the risk of having to send out updates on disks QC was a big thing.
Jtsummers 4y ago
A better question is what is deployable software? How does it contrast from non-deployable so we can understand what we're even talking about. Software gets "deployed" all the time so in what way is it currently non-deployable versus some rose tinted view of yesteryear's software?

Anymore? When were we writing "deployable" software in the past?

marcosdumay 4y ago

You used to buy a disk, put it on your computer and run the thing there.

ElevenLathe 4y ago
Isn't that just "running" the software? To me, "deployment" implies some repeated process that actually wasn't especially valuable to automate or be very careful about when software was released once a year (and hence the reason it wasn't). Also, disks are a horrible way to deploy software. They have all the same problems of just distributing a random tarball: What operating system is it for? What version? Where do I copy the files? How do I get the OS to automatically start the service on startup? What version of make does it use? How about which libc and cc? You can say this stuff in the README (or printed docs) but isn't something more "deployable" when it's all machine-readable and can be reasoned about automatically? This is what package managers were invented for.
xyzzy4747 4y ago
My father told me a story about when he was in college, he had to find a book in the library catalogue with the program he wanted, order it and check it out, and then type it up and test/debug it. After that all his colleagues and professors wanted to borrow it as well. This was in the 70s.

zer00eyz 4y ago

I'll bite! We used to ship software, on discs, and we didn't have the Internet to update it. There is plenty of software out there that works via your linux distress package manager. Note that this isn't everything you can get from your package manager. Plenty of things that are available are broken or miersable to get working unless you get the container/vm version.

tomcam 4y ago
I remember those days well. It really meant you had to be careful with bugs and documentation. It is not clear to me that the we are winning with daily or multiple times daily release schedules at this point.
- jrockway 4y ago
  Were people careful with bugs and documentation? I remember the Internet blowing up one day because every Windows install was sending every IP on the Internet a virus, and there was nothing anyone could do about it. (And yes, Unix also had similar worms, though they largely predate me!) Word used to crash and corrupt your entire novel. There was no online banking. I'm not sure the rose-colored glasses are a realistic take on changing software quality. Today, the tools are available to move quickly and maintain quality. You probably do what was months of manual testing every time you save a file, and certainly every time you commit a set of changes. There are fuzz testers to find the craziest bugs that no human could even imagine. There are robots that read your PR and point out common errors. HN really likes to pan on software quality, but "I don't like this feature" is not a bug per se, just a company you don't like. There are a lot of those, but there are more lines of code than ever, and a lot more stuff works than 30 years ago. I think we, as a field, are getting better.
  - tomcam 4y ago
    I ran a software company that predated the web. Yes, we were incredibly careful. When you ran the risk of having to send out updates on disks QC was a big thing.

Jtsummers 4y ago

A better question is what is deployable software? How does it contrast from non-deployable so we can understand what we're even talking about. Software gets "deployed" all the time so in what way is it currently non-deployable versus some rose tinted view of yesteryear's software?