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RNA compound and vitamin B3 found in samples from near-Earth asteroid
- hulitu 4y ago> RNA compound and vitamin B3 found in samples from near-Earth asteroid They can start mining asteroids for vitamins. /s
- hdhrufjdi 4y agoPerhaps we even find B12 resources so we might not have to eat meat anymore /s
- hulitu 4y agoWhere do you think vitamins come from ? Haven't you seen Star Wars ? (Millenium falcon lands inside an asteroid and the heroes are almost eaten by a space "dinosaur" living inside the asteroid) /s
- pfdietz 4y agoThis is a good idea! I've heard the asteroids are the source of many meaty ores.
- cft 4y agoI wonder if this supports the RNA World life origin hypothesis https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/RNA_world https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/RNA_world , because Uracil doesn't occur in DNA.
- mtlmtlmtlmtl 4y agoIt's my understanding that the RNA world hypothesis is pretty much widely accepted these days anyway. The open question is more how you get to the RNA world in the first place. The RNA hypothesis as such is more an hypothesis of what preceded life based on DNA and protein, and less so a theory of the origin of life from non-life per se. The two main camps today seem to be "metabolism first" with people like Nick Lane and "genetics first" with people like Jack Szostack. I used to favour the genetics side but I've been leaning more towards metabolism recently. Lane's research on this has been fascinating.
- cft 4y agoCan you link to this research? Perhaps an overview link would make a good OP for Hacker News.
- mtlmtlmtlmtl 4y agoHe provides download links to most his papers on his website: https://nick-lane.net/publications/ https://nick-lane.net/publications/ As for a good introduction to what his(and the many other people working in his lab) research is getting at, I really recommend the podcast episode he did on Sean Carroll's Mindscape podcast.
- MagicMoonlight 4y agoRNA is a structure capable of being both a store of data and a catalyst. As RNA forms spontaneously with time, eventually you would end up with an RNA which can catalyse its own ingredients and replicate. As soon as you have one, it would replicate and take over the pool. Random changes would then lead to advancement. Membranes also form spontaneously so the replicating RNA could find itself a bubble through random chance and live in it.
- andrewstuart 4y agoASTEROIDS! Crunchy rocks of breakfast cereal from the depths of space! Delicious with cold milk. Fortified with RNA compound and vitamin B3. No added complex organic molecules.
- spontanious 4y agoI just want Asteroid that tastes like real Asteroid!
- blackoil 4y agoYes. Don't fall for the propaganda. It is all Big Asteroid!!!
- schappim 4y agoThis has gotta add weight to the Panspermia hypothesis. Panspermia is a hypothesis that suggests life on Earth may have originated from microorganisms or organic matter that traveled through space, potentially from other planets or moons in our solar system or even from other star systems.
- FollowingTheDao 4y ago> Panspermia is a hypothesis that suggests life on Earth may have originated from microorganisms But where did the microorganisms on the asteroid come from?
- flappyeagle 4y agohome
- welfare 4y agoSpace Balls
- eternalban 4y agoIf the creation (natural synthesis) of an organic molecule requires extraordinary conditions (some cosmic very rare & special place), AND, such stupendously rare precursors are catalysts of generation of more complex organic molecules (like RNA) in more common conditions (rare but equally distributed planets like Earth), then an ancient chance event somewhere out there is possibly the source of all potential DNA based life-forms via astroid seeding. The entire issue with DNA/RNA is how did these complex molecules naturally arise.
- sandworm101 4y agoThe opposite. If such compounds are common in asteroids absent life, then the rise of RNA/DNA on different planets is more likely to be happening spontaneously, without anything traveling between planets. This finding suggests that some building blocks of life may be very common, increasing the chances of life arising locally without need of panspermia.
- JPLeRouzic 4y agoThey didn't detect RNA which would be extraordinary. What they detected is Uracil, one of the molecules that is found in RNA. They didn't found any other nucleotides. "Other DNA/RNA nucleobases were not positively identified in both the A0106 and C0107 samples. This does not necessarily exclude a possibility that those nucleobases are present in the Ryugu samples, but just they may be below the detection limit under the experimental conditions employed" https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-023-36904-3 https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-023-36904-3 For having RNA you need a molecule composed of roughly 200 nucleotides. If we find RNA, it would be very indicative of DNA, so of living beings very similar to us
- f6v 4y ago> For having RNA you need a molecule composed of roughly 200 nucleotides. miRNA are order of magnitude smaller.
- CrispCas13 4y agoThat's after DICER/Drosha processes the pre-miRNA/pri-miRNA transcripts. The pre-miRNA/pri-miRNAs transcripts can be a magnitude equal to or greater than 200 nts.
- wheelerof4te 4y agoI would guess that whatever organic molecule was on that asteroid, it died off from the intense radiation in space.
- b1c1jones 4y agoOrganic doesn't necessarily imply living.
- faeyanpiraat 4y agoIt actually does: "Organic: relating to or derived from living matter"
- coldtea 4y ago>“Since the Hayabusa2 spacecraft collected two samples directly from asteroid Ryugu and delivered them to Earth in sealed capsules, contamination can be ruled out.” I seriously doubt that it could be "ruled out" just like that. For one, the spacecraft (or the empty capsules) could have been pre-contaminated before their launch. Second, the capsules could have been contaminated after arrival even if they were "sealed" (perhaps the seal had issues, or maybe it happened when they opened them, since one assumes they couldn't test still sealed capsules, they'd have to open them).
- Aachen 4y agoI wonder if there's a "control group": a tiny but identical container that goes through all the same steps. Nothing can ever be proof that it wasn't contaminated or a seal was broken on the real but not the control container, like, nothing will convince an Internet conspiracy theorist, but a control vessel and a handful such missions ought to prove beyond reasonable doubt that it wasn't contaminated from earth. I'm personally already willing to trust that they thought of (and controlled for) these things and more, since it's their job and we're just thinking out loud here.
- gehwartzen 4y agoI don't know how they do it but I always thought the best way would be to have the probe place them in glass ampules and seal them while still in space.
- aa-jv 4y ago[flagged]
- coldtea 4y ago>You better alert the scientists that they missed something, then! That's some serious business, they must be alerted to their failings immediately! Yes, unimaginable that scientists could have made a mistake that a layman could spot, or just said something to create good PR to their mission, even when it's inaccurate. They also never unwittingly or intentionally BS in their research papers, right? And only a colleague (or a higher level intellect than theirs) could spot a mistake... /s >Seriously though, do you really think these scientists are making claims, being widely reported, without having made the same conclusions and analysed the situation with all the data, not just that reported through a story on the Internet .. ? Seriously, similar blunders have happened time and again. In 1996, scientists at NASA declared that a 6.3-ounce rock, broken off from a Mars meteorite discovered in Antarctica in 1984, contained flecks of chemical compounds — polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons, magnetite, and iron sulfide — that suggested the existence of bacteria on the Red Planet 3.6 billion years ago. "August 7, 1996, could go down as one of the most important dates in human history," intoned one newspaper report. But within two years the theory began to crack. Traces of amino acids found in the rock, crucial to life, were also found in the surrounding Antarctic ice. More damning, other non-Martian rocks — rocks from the moon, where it is clear life does not exist — showed the same "evidence" of life. By November 1998 an article in Science declared "most researchers agree that the case for life on Mars is shakier than ever." >Because it seems you're smarter than rocket scientists. Are you a brain surgeon, then? This particular case aside, you appear to believe that you need to be smarter than X person to be able to spot an error they made. It doesn't take a very high IQ however to see the error in the above idea. In any case, based on the insults, did you just wanted to lash out on someone to feel better for yourself?
- DoreenMichele 4y ago“Scientists have previously found nucleobases and vitamins in certain carbon-rich meteorites, but there was always the question of contamination by exposure to the Earth’s environment,” said lead study author Yasuhiro Oba, associate professor at Hokkaido University in Japan, in a statement. “Since the Hayabusa2 spacecraft collected two samples directly from asteroid Ryugu and delivered them to Earth in sealed capsules, contamination can be ruled out.” In other words, there is a history of finding similar compounds on meteorites but under circumstances that made it iffy, at best, to assert these compounds came from space. In spite of debate in comments on HN, this sample constitutes stronger support than we previously had for the idea that these compounds really exist on meteorites in space.
- ianai 4y agoThe thing I was hoping to see in the comments is discussion around the complexity of these compounds and thus how likely they are to form abiotic. Looking at vitamin b3, it seems very simple. My take away is more that the chemistry of life as we know it is pretty prevalent and probably forms readily under many circumstances. I am not shocked this wasn’t an actual DNA strand. Even if someone left some DNA out on an asteroid over enough time I expect it would deteriorate. The universe just bombards stuff without an atmosphere too much for naked DNA to survive in those conditions. This is basically the biggest success I could rationally hope for from this probe. Great work for those scientists and I am so amazed!
- deepzn 4y agoIt's interesting to think of space rocks like asteroids in the manner of pollen, or pollination in how organic molecules spread around in the solar system. :D https://gardens.si.edu/gardens/pollinator-garden/why-what-when-where-who-how-pollination/#:~:text=Pollination%20is%20an%20essential%20part,later%20yields%20fruit%20and%20seeds https://gardens.si.edu/gardens/pollinator-garden/why-what-wh....
- jeroenvlek 4y agoNot just the solar system: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panspermia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panspermia
- deepzn 4y agoof course I meant the universe, but cool didn't know that term.
- eggy 4y agoI read Hoyle and Wikiramasingh's books back in the late 70s and 80s. Fun reads and thought-provoking no matter what side you fall on the Panspermia argument. To those who downplay it as not really being RNA, this is one mission to a near-Earth asteroid. What are the odds you would even find a nucleobase? Amazing work and the contamination argument is always presented in light of any such discoveries. There was also the dismissal of fossil-like impressions in meteorites cut open as just looking like a known life form. I WANT TO BELIEVE ;)
- blincoln 4y ago"The Japanese Aerospace Exploration Agency mission collected one sample from the asteroid’s surface in February 2019, then fired a copper 'bullet' into the asteroid to create a 33-foot (10-meter) wide impact crater." 10 meters seems like a pretty impressive crater for a science payload launched from a deep space probe. In case anyone else is curious, there's a detailed writeup[1] about the Small Carry-on Impactor (SCI) that was used. It looks a little bit like a swords-into-plowshares version of a HEAT warhead. A shaped plastic explosive charge simultaneously launched and deformed a copper plate so that by the time it hit the asteroid, the projectile was shaped like a hollow bullet. ~2kg moving at ~2km/sec, so about 4 million Joules, or about 200 times the kinetic energy of a .50 BMG round. That's some bullet! [1] https://www.planetary.org/articles/what-to-expect-hayabusa2-sci https://www.planetary.org/articles/what-to-expect-hayabusa2-...
- m3kw9 4y agoFor the people that say there are not extraterrestrial life, we are literally “extraterrestrial” life.
- jbj 4y agonot only uracil and niacin, also other molecules: '''revealing that a wide range of organic compounds such as racemic non-protein type amino acids, alkylamines, carboxylic acids, polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons (PAHs), and nitrogen heterocyclic molecules are present in the aqueous or organic extracts''' from the linked paper. racemic mix refers to the equal amout of stereoisomers
- MagicMoonlight 4y agoGiven infinite time you would expect any pool of materials to eventually wibble together into certain compounds. Those compounds will wibble infinitely until they create structures. Some of those structures will be able to wibble compounds together. Some of those structures will be an exact copy of the structure that made it. Those structures will then replicate. Simple life seems inevitable. It’s the tiers above that are the hard part. We only have mitochondria because we ate them and forced them to reproduce inside of us. Without that we would probably have never got beyond the single cell level. There’s a lot of random developments that we could have missed and ended up as just slime on a rock for eternity.