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Switzerland has a direct democracy. If 100k people sign a petition, an initiative (bill) goes to a popular vote. If this move turns out to be highly unpopular,

Switzerland has a direct democracy. If 100k people sign a petition, an initiative (bill) goes to a popular vote. If this move turns out to be highly unpopular, it may be dismantled by the people.

expertentipp 4y ago
Every democracy is toothless when people from the yachts join the game. Every.
- v4dok 4y ago
  You would be surprized how well direct democracy works in Switzerland. Proper political culture and a fairly good standard of living is the trick. The same trick Athens used back then.
  - expertentipp 4y ago
    Yes of course, sir/madam.. but a penthouse overlooking the lake, and a German limousine - would that make you rethink this at least?
    - dwattttt 4y ago
      You're going to rapidly run out of limousines and lakeside penthouses if you need to persuade a majority of the Swiss
      - expertentipp 4y ago
        Once we run out of German maybe Austrian limousine, sir? We have enough for you and your entire family. I know the people will talk, but we're discreet and provide it with a driver - for life.
        v4dok 4y ago
        You've clearly never been to Switzerland. If that worked (which it wouldn't), you would have better luck with bikes.
        expertentipp 4y ago
        Incorrect! What I learned is that they like their money.
- bilekas 4y ago
  That's simply not true and in the case of Switzerland, for this very reason they have their version of Direct Democracy. I's worth looking up how it works. There is no "well lets just ignore the people". https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2017/07/switzerland-direct-democracy-explained/ https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2017/07/switzerland-direct-de...
  - mamonster 4y ago
    Except even in Switzerland there are topics we cannot actually push through with an initiative. We had a vote in 2014 about a very specific way to restrict immigration into Switzerland, it was voted through, but Federal Government wasn't willing to nuke our economic relations with Europe so now if you are advertising for a job in Switzerland you first have to make sure Swiss people don't fulfil your criteria before you hire a foreign person(i.e that is the result of an initiative whose aim was to restrict asylum and Shengen agreement movement).
    - bilekas 4y ago
      Even in this case if I remember correctly there was a version of it implemented in 2016, it is a strange edge case though which would endanger the EEC agreements already in place between the EU and CH. This specific case of the Credit Suisse doesn't appear (to my as a layman) to be in contention of anything external to CH.
    - ExoticPearTree 4y ago
      Your government should have implemented what the people voted. The fact that they could get away with it is a clear sign that they can ignore what you vote on without any consequence.
sidewndr46 4y ago
Does that hold up however? I can think of several ballot initiatives in the US which were approved by the voters and became law only to be struck down by the courts.
- clbrmbr 4y ago
  Most (all?) of the Swiss popular initiatives are implemented as constitutional amendments. The closest we have in the USA is “Article 5” —- if you can get two-thirds of the state legislatures to ratify an amendment, it becomes part of the constitution, without any federal say in the matter. In
- panick21_ 4y ago
  That can't happen that easily. And not by the courts. If the whole government is totally opposed they might drag their feet.
- nradov 4y ago
  The US federal government does not have ballot initiatives. Some states do have ballot initiatives but obviously those can't override the Constitution. For example, see California Proposition 187 on illegal immigration which was passed by voters in 1994 but then largely struck down in federal court.
- duxup 4y ago
  Well in the US a national level bailout wouldn’t be started with a direct ballot initiative. That’s not a thing at the federal level. And I can’t speak about Switzerland but even state level ballot initiatives can be checked by the courts if they violate some other law. CA voted to ban gay marriage via ballot initiative, their courts stuck that down.
  - sidewndr46 4y ago
    That is the point I'm making. Voters could pass a ballot initiative that prohibits a bailout, but a court could find that the corporation has a right to a bailout or that the government can't be overruled on matters of national security by a popular vote. I don't know enough about how Switzerland is established as a country to talk specifics. I only know that it isn't technically an EU member, but is part of the Schengen zone.

Switzerland has a direct democracy. If 100k people sign a petition, an initiative (bill) goes to a popular vote. If this move turns out to be highly unpopular, it may be dismantled by the people.

expertentipp 4y ago

Every democracy is toothless when people from the yachts join the game. Every.

v4dok 4y ago
You would be surprized how well direct democracy works in Switzerland. Proper political culture and a fairly good standard of living is the trick. The same trick Athens used back then.
- expertentipp 4y ago
  Yes of course, sir/madam.. but a penthouse overlooking the lake, and a German limousine - would that make you rethink this at least?
  - dwattttt 4y ago
    You're going to rapidly run out of limousines and lakeside penthouses if you need to persuade a majority of the Swiss
    - expertentipp 4y ago
      Once we run out of German maybe Austrian limousine, sir? We have enough for you and your entire family. I know the people will talk, but we're discreet and provide it with a driver - for life.
      - v4dok 4y ago
        You've clearly never been to Switzerland. If that worked (which it wouldn't), you would have better luck with bikes.
        expertentipp 4y ago
        Incorrect! What I learned is that they like their money.
bilekas 4y ago
That's simply not true and in the case of Switzerland, for this very reason they have their version of Direct Democracy. I's worth looking up how it works. There is no "well lets just ignore the people". https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2017/07/switzerland-direct-democracy-explained/ https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2017/07/switzerland-direct-de...
- mamonster 4y ago
  Except even in Switzerland there are topics we cannot actually push through with an initiative. We had a vote in 2014 about a very specific way to restrict immigration into Switzerland, it was voted through, but Federal Government wasn't willing to nuke our economic relations with Europe so now if you are advertising for a job in Switzerland you first have to make sure Swiss people don't fulfil your criteria before you hire a foreign person(i.e that is the result of an initiative whose aim was to restrict asylum and Shengen agreement movement).
  - bilekas 4y ago
    Even in this case if I remember correctly there was a version of it implemented in 2016, it is a strange edge case though which would endanger the EEC agreements already in place between the EU and CH. This specific case of the Credit Suisse doesn't appear (to my as a layman) to be in contention of anything external to CH.
  - ExoticPearTree 4y ago
    Your government should have implemented what the people voted. The fact that they could get away with it is a clear sign that they can ignore what you vote on without any consequence.

sidewndr46 4y ago

Does that hold up however? I can think of several ballot initiatives in the US which were approved by the voters and became law only to be struck down by the courts.

clbrmbr 4y ago
Most (all?) of the Swiss popular initiatives are implemented as constitutional amendments. The closest we have in the USA is “Article 5” —- if you can get two-thirds of the state legislatures to ratify an amendment, it becomes part of the constitution, without any federal say in the matter. In
panick21_ 4y ago
That can't happen that easily. And not by the courts. If the whole government is totally opposed they might drag their feet.
nradov 4y ago
The US federal government does not have ballot initiatives. Some states do have ballot initiatives but obviously those can't override the Constitution. For example, see California Proposition 187 on illegal immigration which was passed by voters in 1994 but then largely struck down in federal court.
duxup 4y ago
Well in the US a national level bailout wouldn’t be started with a direct ballot initiative. That’s not a thing at the federal level. And I can’t speak about Switzerland but even state level ballot initiatives can be checked by the courts if they violate some other law. CA voted to ban gay marriage via ballot initiative, their courts stuck that down.
- sidewndr46 4y ago
  That is the point I'm making. Voters could pass a ballot initiative that prohibits a bailout, but a court could find that the corporation has a right to a bailout or that the government can't be overruled on matters of national security by a popular vote. I don't know enough about how Switzerland is established as a country to talk specifics. I only know that it isn't technically an EU member, but is part of the Schengen zone.