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At Google, developers were the product, not overhead. As such, they were supported lavishly, with meals and massages, at a level not previously seen, at least n

At Google, developers were the product, not overhead. As such, they were supported lavishly, with meals and massages, at a level not previously seen, at least not in career available to people who weren't fifth-generation Ivy grads. And the pay, total comp is still trumpeted here at HN as among the highest around. Sure, a lot of people saw those perks as being aimed a particular demographic: young people without attachments who were willing to spend nearly 168 hours each week on site. And a lot of us saw the selection of perks as those most likely to attract that demographic. But people who joined Google didn't often leave for reasons related to Google, and I'm not sure there's a better way to describe that than "beloved." Low turnover tells the story.

cromwellian 4y ago
Yup. I was at Google for over a decade, I should have left years ago for a startup, I had offers, but I loved what I did, I loved my fellow coworkers, and I was well compensated. There was little reason to leave, and a lot of reasons to stay.
- solarkraft 4y ago
  Have you left?
  - cromwellian 4y ago
    Laid off, and from the one division I thought would be less subject to layoffs: AI. (I thought Ads would be well insulated too, but I know a lot of Ads folks who were let go). But I'm not that broken up about it, because I feel like tech is getting exciting again, almost like the 90s, when everyday, some new amazing thing comes out. Last week in AI for example, super exciting. There's a lot of opportunity now to build cool stuff in this emerging ecosystem, it's totally unknown space, and what's going to exist 5 yrs from now is going to be as crazy as all of the companies that now exist because of smartphones, or the invention of the browser. I think Google (and OpenAI) might be the best places for AI research, but I'm not sure Google is the best place for applied-research at the application level. I think the startup ecosystem is going to explore that space way more rapidly, and it'll be fun to play in that space.
tenpies 4y ago
> As such, they were supported lavishly, with meals and massages, at a level not previously seen, at least not in career available to people who weren't fifth-generation Ivy grads. I think if you push further back, we did see it. Go find the oldest retired IBMer you can and ask them what it was like in the good days. You'll find it was very similar. Sure, they didn't do the whole come-be-an-activist-while-ignoring-your-actual-job thing, and there were no nap pods, but the perks were up there. From free food to the parties (and yes, your kids are coming to many of them and they and your wife/husband are going to get free gifts from IBM at every chance). There was a time when landing a job at IBM was like getting a job at Google was a while ago - except that they still did the employee-for-life thing and even if you were laid off, it was with your consent (and an obscene benefits package). But you also did have to do actual work, not just attend one meeting per week with no deliverable. Edit: Actually I think it may have been even better back then. There was no company shuttle to the office. You had a company car. There was no roommate while giving 60% of your income to a landlord, housing was still affordable and your spouse didn't really have to work unless they wanted to.
- VirusNewbie 4y ago
  > Go find the oldest retired IBMer you can and ask them what it was like in the good days. You'll find it was very similar. I don't think this was true. Before Google really started poaching everyone, big tech engineering jobs were almost always lower paid than almost any managerial job, and compensation was never in line with lawyers or medical doctors. Plenty of people who put in 10+ years at FAANG companies have enough to retire, did you really see IBM engineers retiring in their 40s (or, the ability to if they wanted?). I've been in the industry for over 20 years, and when I started, regardless of how good of an engineer you were, unless you hit it big with an IPO riches were not to be had. That has changed drastically in the last fifteen years.
jldugger 4y ago
> As such, they were supported lavishly, with meals and massages, at a level not previously seen This is simultaneously true and the CEO wrote a book about how he did an across the board 10 percent raise[1] because Google was underpaying relative to the competition, _for some reason_. [1]: https://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424052748703523604575605273596157634 https://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424052748703523604575605... [2]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-Tech_Employee_Antitrust_Litigation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-Tech_Employee_Antitrust_L...
908B64B197 4y ago
> Sure, a lot of people saw those perks as being aimed a particular demographic: young people without attachments who were willing to spend nearly 168 hours each week on site. And a lot of us saw the selection of perks as those most likely to attract that demographic. It reflects the demographics of the early employees and founders.

cromwellian 4y ago

Yup. I was at Google for over a decade, I should have left years ago for a startup, I had offers, but I loved what I did, I loved my fellow coworkers, and I was well compensated. There was little reason to leave, and a lot of reasons to stay.

solarkraft 4y ago
Have you left?
- cromwellian 4y ago
  Laid off, and from the one division I thought would be less subject to layoffs: AI. (I thought Ads would be well insulated too, but I know a lot of Ads folks who were let go). But I'm not that broken up about it, because I feel like tech is getting exciting again, almost like the 90s, when everyday, some new amazing thing comes out. Last week in AI for example, super exciting. There's a lot of opportunity now to build cool stuff in this emerging ecosystem, it's totally unknown space, and what's going to exist 5 yrs from now is going to be as crazy as all of the companies that now exist because of smartphones, or the invention of the browser. I think Google (and OpenAI) might be the best places for AI research, but I'm not sure Google is the best place for applied-research at the application level. I think the startup ecosystem is going to explore that space way more rapidly, and it'll be fun to play in that space.

tenpies 4y ago

> As such, they were supported lavishly, with meals and massages, at a level not previously seen, at least not in career available to people who weren't fifth-generation Ivy grads. I think if you push further back, we did see it. Go find the oldest retired IBMer you can and ask them what it was like in the good days. You'll find it was very similar. Sure, they didn't do the whole come-be-an-activist-while-ignoring-your-actual-job thing, and there were no nap pods, but the perks were up there. From free food to the parties (and yes, your kids are coming to many of them and they and your wife/husband are going to get free gifts from IBM at every chance). There was a time when landing a job at IBM was like getting a job at Google was a while ago - except that they still did the employee-for-life thing and even if you were laid off, it was with your consent (and an obscene benefits package). But you also did have to do actual work, not just attend one meeting per week with no deliverable. Edit: Actually I think it may have been even better back then. There was no company shuttle to the office. You had a company car. There was no roommate while giving 60% of your income to a landlord, housing was still affordable and your spouse didn't really have to work unless they wanted to.

VirusNewbie 4y ago
> Go find the oldest retired IBMer you can and ask them what it was like in the good days. You'll find it was very similar. I don't think this was true. Before Google really started poaching everyone, big tech engineering jobs were almost always lower paid than almost any managerial job, and compensation was never in line with lawyers or medical doctors. Plenty of people who put in 10+ years at FAANG companies have enough to retire, did you really see IBM engineers retiring in their 40s (or, the ability to if they wanted?). I've been in the industry for over 20 years, and when I started, regardless of how good of an engineer you were, unless you hit it big with an IPO riches were not to be had. That has changed drastically in the last fifteen years.

jldugger 4y ago

> As such, they were supported lavishly, with meals and massages, at a level not previously seen This is simultaneously true and the CEO wrote a book about how he did an across the board 10 percent raise[1] because Google was underpaying relative to the competition, _for some reason_. [1]: https://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424052748703523604575605273596157634 https://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424052748703523604575605... [2]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-Tech_Employee_Antitrust_Litigation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-Tech_Employee_Antitrust_L...

908B64B197 4y ago

> Sure, a lot of people saw those perks as being aimed a particular demographic: young people without attachments who were willing to spend nearly 168 hours each week on site. And a lot of us saw the selection of perks as those most likely to attract that demographic. It reflects the demographics of the early employees and founders.