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How dare those projects be forced to checks notes accommodate disabled people. Sometimes the comments on this site are just insufferable.

by ikiris 4y ago

briandear 4y ago
However there should be a balance. Look at parking lots — the ratio of disabled spaces to standard spaces is not the same ratio as disabled people to non-disabled people. And sometimes it’s ridiculous: drive through ATMs with braille for instance. Private motel swimming pools requiring wheelchair lifts. That extreme additional cost means that many motels just won’t have a swimming pool at all — so everyone is worse off. But you can’t charge disabled people a swimming pool surcharge since that discriminatory. So it raises costs for everyone. By the way, I am referring to private building codes, not taxpayer-funded projects like sidewalks.
- hinkley 4y ago
  Do you suppose that perhaps disabled people take longer to shop? Certainly you’ve heard of Little’s Law if you hang out in HN?
- lukas099 4y ago
  It probably costs less to have drive through ATMs with braille, because they can reuse the braille signage from the non-drive through ATMs.
- asdff 4y ago
  Other things that can add cost fast are having too many elevators. I've been in 4 story buildings with 4 separate elevator shafts before that didn't have nearly the population or staff to ever get more than two moving at once. That just means higher rent to make a return on those 4 shafts mandated by some ordinance, which probably hurts you especially if you can't work and are living cheaply on disability. A lot of ordinances have been written with no understanding of how it would look in practice or the costs to implement them in the market and what that will mean for people who have to rent these units.
- bigbillheck 4y ago
  > And sometimes it’s ridiculous: drive through ATMs with braille for instance. Passengers in the backseat.
asdff 4y ago
There's nuance you are missing here. Have you ever been in LA county where 50 years ago city planners made terrible choises regarding sidewalk trees? Basically the sidewalks today look like a cardiogram on some stretches. To the point where they are totally impassable for disabled people, and the city is often sued by disabled people due to these sidewalks. Why haven't they been fixed? Why does the city continue to be cruel to disabled people year in and out, content to absorb the lawsuits from the few with means to bring them up? It's probably a simple case of those lawsuits being a lot cheaper than actually fixing the sidewalk to the standards the sidewalk is supposed to be fixed. This is an example of a regulation that was meant to help people (building nice sidewalks with various characteristics), but in the end the regulation was written with no understanding of the cost of these changes, or how they might stack up against the cost of doing nothing at all, so its an example of a bad regulation that should be changed so it can actually help people.

How dare those projects be forced to checks notes accommodate disabled people. Sometimes the comments on this site are just insufferable.

by ikiris 4y ago

How dare those projects be forced to checks notes accommodate disabled people. Sometimes the comments on this site are just insufferable.

briandear 4y ago

However there should be a balance. Look at parking lots — the ratio of disabled spaces to standard spaces is not the same ratio as disabled people to non-disabled people. And sometimes it’s ridiculous: drive through ATMs with braille for instance. Private motel swimming pools requiring wheelchair lifts. That extreme additional cost means that many motels just won’t have a swimming pool at all — so everyone is worse off. But you can’t charge disabled people a swimming pool surcharge since that discriminatory. So it raises costs for everyone. By the way, I am referring to private building codes, not taxpayer-funded projects like sidewalks.

hinkley 4y ago
Do you suppose that perhaps disabled people take longer to shop? Certainly you’ve heard of Little’s Law if you hang out in HN?
lukas099 4y ago
It probably costs less to have drive through ATMs with braille, because they can reuse the braille signage from the non-drive through ATMs.
asdff 4y ago
Other things that can add cost fast are having too many elevators. I've been in 4 story buildings with 4 separate elevator shafts before that didn't have nearly the population or staff to ever get more than two moving at once. That just means higher rent to make a return on those 4 shafts mandated by some ordinance, which probably hurts you especially if you can't work and are living cheaply on disability. A lot of ordinances have been written with no understanding of how it would look in practice or the costs to implement them in the market and what that will mean for people who have to rent these units.
bigbillheck 4y ago
> And sometimes it’s ridiculous: drive through ATMs with braille for instance. Passengers in the backseat.

asdff 4y ago

There's nuance you are missing here. Have you ever been in LA county where 50 years ago city planners made terrible choises regarding sidewalk trees? Basically the sidewalks today look like a cardiogram on some stretches. To the point where they are totally impassable for disabled people, and the city is often sued by disabled people due to these sidewalks. Why haven't they been fixed? Why does the city continue to be cruel to disabled people year in and out, content to absorb the lawsuits from the few with means to bring them up? It's probably a simple case of those lawsuits being a lot cheaper than actually fixing the sidewalk to the standards the sidewalk is supposed to be fixed. This is an example of a regulation that was meant to help people (building nice sidewalks with various characteristics), but in the end the regulation was written with no understanding of the cost of these changes, or how they might stack up against the cost of doing nothing at all, so its an example of a bad regulation that should be changed so it can actually help people.