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Psychedelic brew ayahuasca’s profound impact revealed in brain scans
- jossclimb 4y agoI am fascinated by this stuff and DMT and part of me would love to try it. It appears most people experience the same entities such as the self-transforming elf machines. I read another transcript where somebody met their intergalactic girlfriend and the absolute bliss of their reunion and how it felt like they have known each other for hundreds of years. A nice short of Terence McKenna discussing the DMT Elves https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1tGPM7ZxgOM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1tGPM7ZxgOM Another example DMT Girlfriend (can't find the original transcript) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nHLpB38LNg4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nHLpB38LNg4
- prox 4y agoI would advice against prolonged use or using it often. I have seen people around me change their behavior irrationally and erratically, and not for the good, as in not being able to regulate their emotions in a sensible fashion. So while fascinating perhaps, I don’t think it is always used responsibly.
- jallasprit 4y agoAs seems to be the case with most things. Everything done in moderation. Overconsumption of anything will bring harm in different ways. I also believe some changes to ones personality is less than ideal, but more ideal than say, chronic opioid/stimulant/etc use over time
- aziaziazi 4y agoMany would say the same about friends taking antidepressants as IMA, ISRS, ATC… or others DANGEROUS stuff as opioids. An average 2023 pharma shopping bag is highly dangerous when not used responsibly ! Moreover, DMT does not induce any addiction, which may be a cause of its absence on drug dealers and pharmacorps shelves. We should celebrate studies of medecines that have a chance to help people without damaging them.
- reportgunner 4y agoSounds like DMT can damage them as well. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/26166234/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/26166234/
- jallasprit 4y agoCorrelation, not causation: > Laboratory studies revealed elevated creatinine kinase level indicative of rhabdomyolysis. Rhabdomyolysis is associated with a range of medications, drugs and toxins. Many medications increase the risk of rhabdomyolysis.[12] The most important ones are:[4][9][11] Statins and fibrates, both used for elevated cholesterol, especially in combination; cerivastatin (Baycol) was withdrawn in 2001 after numerous reports of rhabdomyolysis.[13] Other statins have a small risk of 0.44 cases per 10,000 person-years.[8] Previous chronic kidney disease and hypothyroidism increase the risk of myopathy due to statins. It is also more common in the elderly, those who are severely disabled, and when statins are used in combination with particular other medicines, such as ciclosporin.[13][8] Antipsychotic medications may cause neuroleptic malignant syndrome, which can cause severe muscle rigidity with rhabdomyolysis and hyperpyrexia Neuromuscular blocking agents used in anesthesia may result in malignant hyperthermia, also associated with rhabdomyolysis Medications that cause serotonin syndrome, such as SSRIs Medications that interfere with potassium levels, such as diuretics Poisons linked to rhabdomyolysis are heavy metals and venom from insects or snakes.[4] Hemlock may cause rhabdomyolysis, either directly or after eating quail that have fed on it.[4][11] Fungi such as Russula subnigricans and Tricholoma equestre are known to cause rhabdomyolysis.[14] Haff disease is rhabdomyolysis after consuming fish; a toxic cause is suspected but has not been proven.[15] Drugs of recreational use, including: alcohol, amphetamine, cocaine, heroin, ketamine and MDMA (ecstasy)[4][11]
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- FollowingTheDao 4y agoYes, that is because they both effect serotonin and serotonin receptor density. https://link.springer.com/article/10.1023/A:1014862808126 https://link.springer.com/article/10.1023/A:1014862808126
- LilBytes 4y agoEverything in moderation, especially moderation.
- mistermann 4y ago"Sensible" is a function of the frame of reference (culture, era, religion, profession, upbringing, ingested information/"facts", etc) of the observer.
- 462436347 4y ago> I have seen people around me change their behavior irrationally and erratically, and not for the good, as in not being able to regulate their emotions in a sensible fashion Their hearts have probably changed as well, and likewise, not for the good.
- FollowingTheDao 4y agoThis is typical drug "addiction" behavior. I call it a "negative addiction" (copyright me). In a positive addiction you see the drug that makes you feel better. In a negative addiction, the drug leaves you feeling worse but there is not craving for it. This occurs with drugs that do not affect dopamine or the dopamine receptors.
- neom 4y agoI love reading the trip reports on Erowid: https://erowid.org/experiences/subs/exp_DMT.shtml https://erowid.org/experiences/subs/exp_DMT.shtml
- deemster 4y agoI can't post the link because I'm at work but you might be interested in the DMT Nexus forum. Lots of trip reports and treasure trove of information related to DMT/Ayahuasca.
- ycombinete 4y agoSame here. I've read a lot of them. And I haven't read a single one that made me want to try it. My psyche treats any state as permanent, and I think most of these trips would probably drive me insane. Inb4 I need a psychedelic trip to break out of that psychic mold.
- LoganDark 4y ago> Inb4 I need a psychedelic trip to break out of that psychic mold. I literally feel like this could be the case for me. I'm unable to lucid dream because even if I go into it knowing it's going to be a dream, hell even if I go into a daydream, my brain will instantly realize it's seeing or experiencing something and assert that it's reality and there's no need to question it because it is certainly real. It's so annoying because it affects more than just dreaming, it also makes it impossible for other people to convince me that any of my memories are even slightly embellished.
- FollowingTheDao 4y agoI like reading trip reports on trains. (Drugs only give you a different experience!)
- IIAOPSW 4y agoI believe whats happening at a certain level all brains encode an abstract conscious reality-stream in a similar way, and as such distortions to the brain manifest in similar ways for everyone. The fact that DMT entities are so common tells us that the perception of other consciousness's is a primitive attribute in however our world-state is managed by the brain. Flip a few random bits in an image, you get pixels. Flip a few random bits in the brain, you get conversations with entities. The error mode tells you about the data format. So here's my conjecture. The brain attributes a "spirit" to every object the same as it attributes color and size and shape. Linguistically we use it all the time to reason about cause and effect. "The piston wants the wheel to turn, but it is too tired". Some cultures literally believe in these spirits.
- DJBunnies 4y agoHave you tried it?
- IIAOPSW 4y agoDMT? Personally, tried but it was a bad order that simply failed to work as advertised. Psychedelics more generally? Yeah.
- mistermann 4y agoAnd some literally don't believe in them. Each person practices their own style of epistemology, usually using binary. "Whatever gets you through the night" they say! Personally, I think it's fun to dream what might be the case, or what could be some day. :)
- atchoo 4y agoYep. Sounds similar to the shared phenomena of the "Hat Man" entity that a lot of people suffering from sleep paralysis report. https://thehatmanproject.com/ https://thehatmanproject.com/ I am curious about what humans experiencing sleep paralysis perceived before the invention of the hat.
- IIAOPSW 4y ago
- 462436347 4y agoIt's interesting that these Elves never seem to provide any useful, actionable information, especially information that their human interlocutor would have had no way of knowing. Instead it's just vague, mystical fluff.
- MrBuddyCasino 4y agoOne take on psychedelics I find intriguing is that instead of providing actual deep insights, they simulate it. While you are high, everything just seems profound and mystical, but there is really nothing there, it is an artifact of the distorted brain chemistry. I find this makes sense because in my experience, people that regularly take psychedelics do not seem wiser or more insightful to me than people who don't. There is probably some way in which they boost creativity by making thought processes less rigid, which helps in things like music and maybe some kinds of technical innovation.
- FollowingTheDao 4y agoYeah, using this drug to break down the compartments of the brain will lead to increased creativity (which is all hallucinations are, daydreaming on overload), it will not last. And the more you use DMT the more you will need for the same effect.
- hnthrway 4y agoWhy do you think that you need more for the same effect? Everything I've read states that ayahuasca doesn't induce tolerance
- realce 4y agoThey don't know, they're talking out of their rearend.
- FollowingTheDao 4y agoDMT acts on the HTR2A and HTR2C receptors. When you activate HTR2C receptors at high levels the nerves respond by changing the number HTR2C receptors. This is called having an "effect of receptor density". You can read about it in this study: (I know what you are going to say, that this proves one cannot get habituated to DMT But that is wrong adn you will need to read the second study to understand why. https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0091305798001105 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S00913... Because drug efficacy changes with receptor density and cellular microenvironment, we also examined the properties of DMT in native preparations using a behavioral and biochemical approach." One difference was evident in that the 5-HT2C, but not the 5-HT2A, receptor showed a profound desensitization to DMT over time. This difference is interesting in light of the recent report that the hallucinogenic activity of DMT does not tolerate in humans and suggests the 5-HT2C receptor plays a less prominent role in the action of DMT. https://www.cureus.com/articles/62522-5-ht1a-and-5-ht2a-signaling-desensitization-and-downregulation-serotonergic-dysfunction-and-abnormal-receptor-density-in-schizophrenia-and-the-prodrome#!/ https://www.cureus.com/articles/62522-5-ht1a-and-5-ht2a-sign... Furthermore, abnormal receptor density ratios are strongly associated with positive and negative symptom severity, which are typically assessed using the Scale for the Assessment of Negative Symptoms In addition, Hurlemann et al. (2007) proposed that 5-HT2A receptor density was also decreased in the At-Risk Mental State patient subgroup, regardless of conversion to psychosis [4]. The progressive decline in subcortical 5-HT2A receptor density could provide an indicator of conversion to schizophrenia.
- 0_____0 4y agoThe Machine Elves thing is fascinating. I would chalk it up to a sort of culturally shared hallucination, where people have heard of them and are primed to expect them, except for that I had an experience on DMT long before I had heard of this phenomenon where I saw such things... I called them "engineer aliens," I shit you not
- dagorenouf 4y agoI had never done any kind of drugs in my life or psychedelics, but took Ayahuasca once with friends who were in the personal wellness space circa 2010. My experience: - tastes like mud - it’s recommended to vomit after taking it, but I felt too self-conscious because we were all together in the same room - the first part of the trip was wonderful as I spent 2hours in bliss seeing colored lights, I still remember this feeling fondly - the next 2 hours were bad as I saw myself as a kid alone crying in recess, but it did help me see past trauma I hadn’t resolved yet - for the following month, I felt 10x more present in my body and alive. - I got more confrontational which almost got me into fights, but also got me laid - after 1 month my state went back to normal, this made me sad since I loved my other, 10x more confident self - it seems the reason it lasted so long is because I couldn’t vomit in the first place, so the “medecine” stayed with me longer Overall awesome experience and would love to do it again.
- sva_ 4y agoAwesome experience report, but > it seems the reason it lasted so long is because I couldn’t vomit in the first place, so the “medecine” stayed with me longer I highly doubt that, it was probably metabolized and out of your system in a few days max. What you describe are classical "afterglow" symptoms. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Afterglow_(drug_culture) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Afterglow_(drug_culture)
- FollowingTheDao 4y agoAfterglow is a layman's term but tells you nothing of the science. After the high does of amines (serotonin analog) which results in a drastic change serotonin receptor densities. It takes a while fro these receptors densities to return to normal. DMT behaves as an agonist at both 5-HT2A and 5-HT2C receptors. There is nothing more to the magic than that. P.S. I have the same experience as being on DMT and I do not take DMT and for some reason I am on disability for it. So tell me again how this is beneficial?
- CommitSyn 4y agoI'm confused. What are you on disability for? Surely not for using DMT...
- stbenjam 4y agoTitle is a little incorrect, the study was DMT only whose effects only last a short time period. You need the ayahuasca brew which contains other plants including an MAO-I that makes the effects possible via oral administration and also last much longer.
- bordercases 4y agoWhat an important detail to screw up!
- optimalsolver 4y agoBest article I've ever read regarding DMT and its affects on the human mind: https://www.waggish.org/2011/benny-shanon-the-antipodes-of-the-mind/ https://www.waggish.org/2011/benny-shanon-the-antipodes-of-t...
- 6_6_6 4y agolife is pain and there are no shortcuts
- yreg 4y agoOf course there are shortcuts. E.g. ibuprofen.
- tgv 4y agoThere's also beauty and wonder. And you don't even need drugs for them.
- speedylight 4y agoGetting a dog is a pretty great shortcut.
- stbenjam 4y agoAyahausca and plant medicines are not short cuts, but the problem is a lot of people expect to take these things and magically be cured. They can bring up a lot of difficult things that need to be dealt with.
- jacquesm 4y agoI've seen two people go down the Ayahuasca path in the past years and both of them have undergone such profound personality changes that I've had to stop seeing them. They've gone off the deep end in ways that are hard to describe. What also bothers me is that they've become incessant advocates for others to join them in their misery.
- Baxxter 4y agoHow old are you all and how long have you known these people? Just curious
- throwaway4aday 4y agoThis is just turning out to be the acid craze of our generation. We need a PSA. If you take a heroic dose of a powerful hallucinogen with little prior experience or preparation you stand a chance of breaking your brain. Doing ayahuasca with some unknown "shaman" in a jungle "wellness retreat" is not the same as going to a spa and getting acupuncture. It's more like going skydiving with an "instructor" that just hands you a parachute and says Jump!
- MonkeyMalarky 4y agoJust take this 5-strip of acid at a 3 day music festival surrounded by 20,000 people for your first time bro!
- neom 4y agoIntegration work is really important. Many people don't have the help they need to integrate their experience back into regular reality unfortunately. It's a shame, because the effects can be profoundly helpful, but meaningless if you can't continue to function in society. Many people try to bend every day life to a perceivable achievement of a new way of living for "us all". It's normal to realize certain relationships in your life are not positive, it's unhelpful to try and change others.
- AnimalMuppet 4y ago
- fnord77 4y agoDMT triggered severe anxiety in my that lasted 4 years. It was hell. It ruined my life
- DrSiemer 4y agoSet & setting?
- anovikov 4y agoWhy not take the good old acid instead?
- LoganDark 4y agoDifferent type of psychedelic, different trip experience... also synthetic whereas ayahuasca can be fully natural and traditional
- euroderf 4y agosynthetic = no assurance of actual dosage (without accurate testing). natural = some assurance?
- LoganDark 4y agoI think it's the other way around, where synthetic hallucinogens can be fully purified and measured, but brews of naturally occurring hallucinogens depend on how saturated the plant ended up being that time. But taking a natural brew in a temple or something has a different set and setting than taking a synthetic chemical like LSD. It's also closer to tradition, and promotes the idea that the drug trip is a religious or spiritual experience. IOW I think the use of ayahuasca over LSD is mainly symbolic, but DMT (as used in ayahuasca) does have its differences (though I do not know them).
- euroderf 4y ago> I think it's the other way around, where synthetic hallucinogens can be fully purified and measured My point was, with synthetics it's still caveat emptor. Natural products have that too - a measure of uncertainty - but without a possible profit motive and without intent to conceal possible incompetence. Woodstock + brown acid.
- anovikov 4y agoOpposite. If you take acid in liquid form you have full assurance of the dosage. Then dilute it as you need. With natural substances, idk how about ayahuasca, but say with mushrooms of all sorts it gets to be a real pain: concentrations may vary WIDELY.
- batushka3 4y agoThis drug normalisation in media makes me so sad. For few lads with life changing ayahuasca trip there is a hundred depresive and miserable trips, also lasting for months! And if someone dares to speak up, reply is "oh your set & setting was wrong". Drugs are wrong, it's high risk substance with highest probability to mess you up and minuscule to give any longer lasting benefit.
- LoganDark 4y agoI have slightly-conflicted opinions about this. On one paw, I'm disappointed with how normalized, say, caffeine is, and how many people accidentally fall victim to caffeine dependence out of carelessness. In many cases, one's inability to function before their daily cup of coffee didn't exist before they got addicted. (Nowadays people at least know how terrible nicotine is, but most still think vaping it is OK for some reason... but I digress.) On the other paw, I'm also not exactly a supporter of the idea that "drugs are wrong", as you so kindly put it. (Some people need caffeine to help an existing condition just like some people with ADHD might need stimulants, obviously I'm not talking about that but rather completely healthy people who develop a dependence on caffeine because they think it's completely safe and harmless.) I believe that proper education about drugs would enable people to use them safely and responsibly—rather than the current situation where pervasive propaganda prevents many people from obtaining the education they would need to do so (also known as "harm reduction"). They can't tell the signal from the noise, so they have to shut everything out, even safety tips that would help them. Don't get me wrong, not everything you hear about drugs is propaganda. For example, methamphetamine and MDMA are significantly neurotoxic and can wreck your brain and your life very easily and quickly. Heroin is so madly addictive that one often stops being of sound mind once they've taken even a single dose, if it's high enough. But ayahuasca (DMT), or LSD? They are of course to be respected and used responsibly, but they are not "wrong" in and of themselves. Yes, there are ways to abuse them, and they are capable of facilitating severe mental damage and permanent impairment—but that doesn't mean they're simply wrong, even if they are risky. You explicitly dismissed this but I want to say it anyway: set and setting matter a lot when you take a psychedelic. "set" represents your entire mental state. It consists of your mood, your hopes and dreams, your anxieties and traumas, your goals, and so on. People who get a bad trip were stung by set. Not because "drugs are wrong". Psychedelics do not directly cause depression or misery or trauma—they give your brain the capability to create those experiences for itself. They create unrestrained thought and an experience that isn't subject to the usual moderation. Of course you can traumatize yourself on LSD—your barriers are down. You're vulnerable to your own thoughts. By taking LSD you are taking responsibility for what you do to yourself while you are on it, and what mental state you are in when the trip starts. Drugs aren't wrong, they're just formidable.
- steffen84 4y agoFor everyone how wants a trip without a trip, I can recommend this Video: High Dose SHROOMS Trip Simulation https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3BxiYkCPZwI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3BxiYkCPZwI
- LocalH 4y agoI've never taken aya, but I have had a particularly profound smoked DMT trip that taught me a whole different side of personal time perception