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Tell HN: MailChimp blacklists your IP if you open the browser's dev tools
Anyone else noticing this while editing an email? It seems just crazy.
- pictur 4y agoI don't want to believe they are that stupid. Why would a platform heavily used by developers make such an idiot? This is so funny right now. The most absurd security measure I've ever seen
- Kiro 4y agoCan anyone else than pupppet confirm this?
- 1B05H1N 4y agoMaybe they have a bot problem and their security policy is a bit too aggressive.
- jibe 4y agoI got banned for hitting the back button. Their heuristics for blocking are shit. I’m literally logged in working on my list, hit back, and bang, banned. No weird plugins, no vpn, not even sending email.
- humaniania 4y agoProbably because from their side that behavior looks no different from certain types of attacks that they are familiar with and are actively working to block?
- schappim 4y agoThis is problematic. We had to contact Mailchimp on March 7th regarding their flawed implementation of CKEditor. To demonstrate the issue, we sent them a screencast[1] (in the video we opened dev tools). We requested and were provided with a refund. Per my other comment on this thread. The content of the request was created using GPT (although the prompt history is not available, it can be reverse engineered). The email sent and reply to the email are available[2]. I'm adding this comment to highlight the very reasonable fair use of opening up dev tools to try to workout what is going on. [1] https://files.littlebird.com.au/Screen-Recording-2023-03-08-at-2.43.03-pm.mov https://files.littlebird.com.au/Screen-Recording-2023-03-08-... [2] https://files.littlebird.com.au/Screen-Shot-2023-03-21-at-8.48.01-am-HUEx9r.png https://files.littlebird.com.au/Screen-Shot-2023-03-21-at-8....
- kull 4y agoI am using dev tools when editing templates in mailchimp interface code editor. Did not get banned yet.
- pupppet 4y agoJust an update, it's definitely triggered by the act of looking for JavaScript source maps. If I disable that in Chrome I can use developer tools without issue.
- andrewstuart 4y agoThere as another site - I can't recall which - when you open developer tools it had a recruiting ad there and asked you to apply.
- Crosseye_Jack 4y agoMany sites do it, but the one I always recall is reddit. EDIT: BBC news puts a rather fancy one in the console Facebook puts a warning about self xss in the console.
- sli 4y agoI remember discovering the BBC one because that's how I found out you can use CSS to style things in the console.
- dbl000 4y agoI think both Facebook and Discord do that. I know that the Discord webapp has a big warning along the lines of "copy pasting code here can lead to a compromised account" and then a message about "if you know what you are doing, come work for us".
- cynicalsecurity 4y agoThat's a valid reason not to use their services.
- junon 4y agoNasty dark pattern from what I assume are wildly inexperienced developers at MailChimp. Just more reason not to use them.
- vogon_laureate 4y agoThey may also just lock your account for ‘suspicious activity’ if you move office and want to update your address details. Good luck trying to get it back in reasonable time even when you send all the paperwork to prove what you were doing was not only legit but legally required. Took us three weeks to get our account back.
- consultSKI 4y agoif true, one more reason i don't miss mailchimp... they have made it IMPOSSIBLE to take them seriously. #justSayin
- nurettin 4y agoThe protection isn't complete unless they block right-click. Welcome to the 90s.
- Animats 4y agoCan this be used to make MailChimp stop sending spam to an address?
- morrbo 4y agoI'm willing to bet that if someone can social engineer their support staff into opening a console from their corp address, yes (in a way lol)
- davidjfelix 4y agoNo, that's their business model.
- contravariant 4y agoNo, but you can quite easily make it unusable from a certain IP address apparently.
- supriyo-biswas 4y agoAre you seeing any network requests or data transmitted over open websockets to confirm this is actually the case? I get it that people like to complain about stuff on HN (I recently had a thread too) but there needs to be evidence for people to go off of.
- pupppet 4y agoOpen the inspector, reload the page and you'll see: "Request Blocked We blocked your request because the IP address you’re using looks suspicious. This issue will usually resolve itself after a short period of time, and you can try your request again. You can also try using a different IP address to see if that resolves the issue. If you need additional help, you can try one of these support options. Reference Number: #####"
- supriyo-biswas 4y agoThank you for the description. I assume they're using a bot management script which is set to block requests if devtools is open. For such websites, opening devtools in a separate window should work. Some websites will try to throw you into a loop of debugger statements if they detect devtools being opened, which is harder to work around, but it doesn't seem to be the case here.
- Workaccount2 4y agoIs there an extension or workaround that prevents sites from knowing you opened devtools (without breaking everything else on the site)?
- nadaviv 4y agoIt might be harder to detect if you open it as a separate window instead of docking it to the bottom/side of the window.
- Boltgolt 4y agoDisabling javascript breakpoints usually does the trick. Devtools detection is often done by having a `debugger;` statement somewhere and timing of it triggered
- acuozzo 4y agoThis SO post is a bit old now, so I'd verify before proceeding, but it looks like having devtools open in a separate window will enable you to circumvent the check. https://stackoverflow.com/questions/40153206/detect-if-console-devtools-is-open-in-all-browsers https://stackoverflow.com/questions/40153206/detect-if-conso...
- ars 4y agoOr have it open before you visit the page. Assuming they are detecting a resize. But if they really detect a resize, anyone who actually does resize their page will be blocked as well. Doing that seems a bit insane to me.
- mh- 4y agoit's been some years, but I think it's still possible to detect the viewport resize without a corresponding window resize, so the 'docked' DevTools can be inferred distinct from a resizing of the window.
- iso1631 4y agoenable/disable a menu or toolbar then. Not sure what full screen would do either
- sli 4y agoThat is exactly what ends up happening when you detect a viewport resize without a window resize and immediately assume it's the devtools. A user opens their bookmark sidebar and gets blacklisted, because the code simply assumes what's happened.
- iudqnolq 4y agoAlmost everyone resizes windows by manually dragging the corner. This will generate a series of resize events rather than a single jump. This is a real technique, but it tends to be used by shady piracy sites that want to stop piracy of their pirated contents. There's another cute approach based on the fact console.log(foo) calls foo.toString if and only if the devtools is open.
- taf2 4y agoFascinating I encourage customers to use the dev tools to discover and see how to work with our apis
- 1123581321 4y agoThat's an anticompetitive move. If you need to switch senders for some reason, the inspector is the only clean way to get an email's HTML into another ESP.
- quickthrower2 4y agoTampermonkey
- htag 4y agoIs that true? An email client like Thunderbird or Mail will save a copy of the email on your local hard drive, which will include the HTML. This isn't something I do regularly, but would be first first response if I needed to see the HTML of an email. Maybe Mailchimp has protections against this route too?
- 1123581321 4y agoYes, it's true. You don't want all the chrome from the actual send around the body of your email because the other ESP will be providing that. You might also want to prevent certain fields and links from converting into the send versions. But in a pinch, sure, you could slice the body out of a copy in Thunderbird.
- tobr 4y agoMakes no sense. If you’re considering switching to a different provider, getting blocked makes it impossible to continue to use the service?
- 1123581321 4y agoYes it does. Say you're an agency sending email on behalf of several different organizations. If you export one to send through CampaignMonitor (usually list or domain approval related), the employee who pulled the HTML gets their hand slapped by the IP ban. It's less likely to happen next time with a different campaign or different client. I haven't actually experienced the IP ban but I've sent for the same organization through multiple ESPs without quitting one for good. Even if you are a single organization user and leaving for good, you might do so gradually or perform test sends first. Speaking from experience again.
- moduspol 4y agoIt's pretty common as an account hijacking vector, right? Hackers tell non-techies to paste things into the console, which can then share cookies or access tokens with the attacker. Obviously the browser is "owned" by the client, so a sufficiently motivated techie could bypass this any number of ways. But it prevents some number of non-techies from security issues.
- ars 4y agoYou can print debug messages to the console to warn people. The website has no idea if they opened it or not. But here, it seems they are detecting if the window is resized! That's just crazy.
- is_true 4y agoIn that case you take Facebook 's route and show a message when you open the console.
- 0cf8612b2e1e 4y agoWell that is poopy. Is there a way I can “stealth” open dev tools on all sites? I like to see network requests in a lot of places, but don’t like to think the server will change their responses based on my local actions.
- simonmales 4y agoMake it open in a separate window.
- cpmsmith 4y agoThere are a couple of ways they can try to detect devtools being opened. As the sibling comment implies, the most popular way is to detect a sudden viewport resize, and you can avoid that by ensuring your devtools are set to open in a new window before opening them. The only other ways I'm aware of are: - Detecting the keyboard shortcut, ⌘⌥i or equivalent, which you can avoid by using the browser menu, and - More riskily, evaluating a `debugger` statement and detecting whether evaluation paused. I'm not sure you could do anything about this one, but it would certainly be obvious to you whether it was happening.
- btdmaster 4y agoIn firefox, you can disable `debugger` by deactivating all breakpoints, making `debugger` a noop. Toggle the thing in the dotted rectangle: https://firefox-source-docs.mozilla.org/devtools-user/debugger/how_to/disable_breakpoints/index.html https://firefox-source-docs.mozilla.org/devtools-user/debugg...
- ars 4y agoHow can they tell that you opened dev tools?
- xnx 4y agoI believe there are multiple techniques. One of them is detecting an abrupt decrease in the viewport size.
- arbol 4y agoSo ctrl/CMD left/right to move your window to one half of the screen might block you!? XD
- birdman3131 4y agoPeople elsewhere in the thread seemed to imply that if Viewport size != window size dev tools is likely opened.
- zamadatix 4y agoThat would create far too many false positives. The common way is to detect if window.innerWidth changed by a minimum threshold but window.outerWidth did not. The limitations of the method are built in sidebars (such as on Edge with the sidebar and search sidebar) could trigger it as well if your minimum width is not wide enough while on the other hand if your minimum width is too wide you won't catch the dev tools opening. The method is also limited in that undocked dev tools will not register a triggering change.
- rezonant 4y agoAs others have mentioned, you can simply put in a sourcemap entry in your JS, and when the browser requests that URL (which happens when Devtools opens to prepare for showing original sources), ban the IP.
- doubleorseven 4y agoYou create this pseudo function: 1. setTimeout to call an endpoint that will block your ip. It's set to run in 2 seconds from now. 2. Insert: debugger; 3. Clear the timeout. Now you run this function as an interval. If the devtools is closed, debugger will be ignored and the call to this endpoint will never happen. But if it's open, the debugger will stop and the timeout will fire. Not sure if you need to patch SetTimeout to continue running while you stop but I hope you get the general idea
- cyral 4y agoWow, so this is why I've been having trouble getting Mailchimp to load lately. As a developer I often have devtools open for whatever I'm working on. If need to help out marketing with an automation or something, using the same tab, I get banned for the day.
- pupppet 4y agoI had to use their silly drag-and-drop email builder because I'm handing the email off to be edited by a non-dev. I dropped in a "Code" module so I could add some custom CSS but because a style tag generates no space, that module is no longer accessible via the UI as there's nothing to click on. So I thought oh brother I'll just inject a couple br tags via the Inspector and then poof, I'm in the doghouse.
- sosborn 4y agoJust want to say as someone who regularly drops in code modules to insert css, you can absolutely access the block in the UI.
- pupppet 4y agoYeah I thought it would be a weird oversight on MC's part to make you jump through hoops just to insert a style tag but it completely disappeared from the UI. The effect from my CSS was still there so I know it was still on the page...somewhere.
- Retr0id 4y agoRather than it being dev tools itself, I think it's more likely that your injected <br> tags got POSTed to an API endpoint (or similar) in unescaped format, and were categorised by a WAF as attempted XSS. It's common for WAFs to block you for this kind of thing, unfortunately. Still ridiculous, but not quite the same thing as being banned for opening dev tools (of course, I am also speculating here, I guess we'd need to hear from mailchimp to be sure).
- pupppet 4y agoActually just opening the dev tools triggers it. The blacklist seems to expire on its own so I went ahead and opened the dev tools and did nothing more, reloaded, blocked.
- justinclift 4y ago
- klabb3 4y agoCouple thoughts: 1. Correctly designed dev tools shouldn’t be detectable from the app itself, especially not if the tools are passively used for observing. This can be abused by malicious actors who can make it harder to detect and warn others. It can also cause heisenbugs. 2. One if those malicious actors is apparently Mailchimp. I don’t use it so I’m not affected. But from a meta-perspective it’s concerning when direct user-hostile actions are normalized by what most people consider “legit companies”. The same could be said about fingerprinting and many other tricks. 3. Meta-meta point: if you’re running a business that does this, the open web is not for you. You don’t belong, and you should try building your own proprietary stack instead. I don’t mind wolves, but please stop dressing in sheep clothing. There’s a paradox of tolerance at play here.
- srejk 4y agoIf it's detecting resize/sidebar, does the new "Search Google for foo" sidebar window trigger it too?
- runlevel1 4y agoSure does! Give it a try: https://sindresorhus.com/devtools-detect/ https://sindresorhus.com/devtools-detect/ For some reason it failed to flag it for one of my attempts, but it consistently flagged it for all the others.
- schappim 4y agoI used ChatGPT to get a refund from Mailchimp when their CKText editor failed to load on International Women's Day, preventing us from sending an email promotion that day. I opened the web inspector to show the library erroring when Mailchimp tried out a to load it, and also provided a screencast. I wasn't blocked, but I did receive a refund. So this must be a relatively new thing! If I were the OP, I would complain and request a refund.
- schappim 4y agoFor the folks are that are asking for the prompt, I'm afraid conversation history is not working at the moment. I can however provide you with the output: We experienced a technical issue with Mailchimp's editor in production, which unfortunately prevented us from editing our campaign before the deadline. Our team used Chrome Version 110.0.5481.177 (Official Build) (arm64), but the editor kept failing to function properly. As a result, we suffered a significant financial loss due to missing the campaign deadline. In light of these circumstances, we kindly request a refund for our monthly fees, especially considering the recent fee increase. To provide evidence of the issue, we have included a video showcasing the broken Mailchimp editor and the corresponding JavaScript error from the text editor (ckeditor). The video is available here: https:/[URL to screen capture].mov We appreciate your assistance in resolving this matter and ensuring we receive the refund we are entitled to. Asking GPT to reverse engineer the prompt: https://files.littlebird.com.au/Screen-Shot-2023-03-21-08-34-55.70-teTVlD.png https://files.littlebird.com.au/Screen-Shot-2023-03-21-08-34... Further information: This interaction took place on March 7th (Sydney time).
- skinnymuch 4y agoWhat do you ask chatgpt to get the necessary text to send
- schappim 4y agoSorry, don't have original, but you can reverse engineer it: https://files.littlebird.com.au/Screen-Shot-2023-03-21-08-34-55.70-teTVlD.png https://files.littlebird.com.au/Screen-Shot-2023-03-21-08-34...
- djbusby 4y agoWhen you open devtools, by default it will try to load source code maps for your JS and CSS. Very simple for a system to detect the request for the map file. If that's their vector turn off the autoloader and try from a clean IP.
- Karellen 4y agoTIL about source code maps. ...and how to disable them from auto-loading. I mean, okay, I can see how they definitely have a use. But to try and auto-fetch js and css maps just because I want to have a look at the DOM? Why not wait until I actually try looking at js/css? Or even until I ask to see the source map? Prefetching never feels right to me. Even though I know GET requests are supposed to be side-effect free and idempotent (and if they're not, that's a choice by the server devs and they'd better have covered all the edge cases where clients correctly act as if they are...), it has the architectural equivalent of a "code smell" to my nose.
- JeremyBanks 4y ago[dead]
- zamadatix 4y agoInteresting to note. In Firefox "show original sources" seems to be enabled by default but in Chrome at least the settings checkbox is labeled "Allow DevTools to load resources, such as source maps, from remote file paths. Disabled by default for security reasons" and unchecked for me. Haven't checked Safari to see what its behavior is.
- adamsb6 4y agoMail... kimp?
- runlevel1 4y agoOverview of techniques used to detect/block dev tools and some ways to circumvent them (2021): https://www.usenix.org/system/files/sec21-musch.pdf https://www.usenix.org/system/files/sec21-musch.pdf If that's actually what's happened here, that's a real dick move. Disclosure: I formerly worked at SendGrid
- mandeepj 4y agoSo, use Tor browser or a VPN tunnel!
- crad 4y agoShould try out AWeber.com </shameless-plug>
- aendruk 4y agoReminds me of my experiences with UnitedHealthcare’s website. If I try to log in with Firefox + uBO I get mysterious permissions errors and “something went wrong” messages for the next few hours, even after switching browsers. Use Chromium from the beginning though and it’s smooth sailing. And of course their “tech” support is beyond useless about this.
- throwway120385 4y agoUHC is one of my poster children for how you can structure a corporation to completely absolve both parties of any responsibility for anything.
- hirundo 4y agoThat website only works on Chrome for me, it doesn't let me login on Brave ... which is a flavor of Chromium, right?
- lotsofpulp 4y agoLots of websites make me disable content blockers on Safari too, or even not let me use Safari (maybe because of Apple’s Private Relay?). The part I do not understand is even websites that verify you via 2FA do this, so I assume their goal is to track you no matter what.
- lastangryman 4y agoLike those right-click pop ups you used to get to prevent you copying images. We've come full circle. Only this time it's a large profitable company rather than some random Geocities page.
- omgomgomgomg 4y agoHow is this detected in js, if possible? Is there a dev tools open event or does it detect f keys and right click events?
- sphars 4y agoOne of the ways this is detected is by window resizing. You can see an example npm package that can detect devtools here: https://github.com/sindresorhus/devtools-detect https://github.com/sindresorhus/devtools-detect
- zzo38computer 4y agoLike they say there, there are other reasons that the window might be resized, including other sidebars, or split screen (if you use a browser that has this feature), or possibly even printing the document (since the page will have different dimensions than the screen), or resizing the window if you have other programs open at the same time, etc. I had wanted to prevent web pages from detecting the window height, which has many benefits, including this but also prevents using the window height to override font sizes, preventing auto-loading on scrolling, and auto-scrolling ads into view, in addition to the debugger. Additionally, detecting the outer window size should not be possible at all; it is not useful. Only the document view area is useful to detect anyways.
- eminent101 4y agoIsn't this spying on the user without user's consent? Me opening dev tools to view the source is a private activity. Is it okay to collect this kind of info and use it to block access? Are there no regulations against this?
- AlchemistCamp 4y agoIf it were a "private activity", they wouldn't know you did it. If your computer sends requests to their server about it, then it's not really fair of you to expect them not to be aware of it.
- eminent101 4y agoDoes the computer really send requests to their server when I open dev tools? I checked and I couldn't find any request that was sent from Firefox or Chrome when I opened dev tools. Aren't they using a JavaScript based detection mechanism like listening for browser events on the client side or latching on to debugger to pull this information? Sounds to me like they are going out of their way to pull private information from my system that I or my system or my browser had no intention of sharing with them.
- jibe 4y agoCheck your console instead of the network tab - it will load css.map and js.map files. I never noticed until now, but .map requests don’t show in the network requests.
- javajosh 4y ago> Isn't this spying on the user without user's consent? Yes. > Is it okay to collect this kind of info and use it to block access? No. It's not okay. > Are there no regulations against this? Probably not. In this case the remedy is to just use another service, or DIY. And I also think that's a pretty reasonable remedy, which will send a message to others considering such actions. FWIW I would like to see regulations around intrusive spying on client machines via the browser or any other path. Ideally we'd get new, specific legislation around it. Something might also be done at the executive level at the FCC. Legislation is unlikely because of America's current flirtation with 3rd world style politics. In terms of advocacy, I would assume that the EFF is of a similar view. Other human rights groups would be supportive of such measures, since in addition to protecting consumers, they protect journalists and their sources as well. The people against will be state security services and all businesses powered by a targeted ad engine.
- xkcd1963 4y agoHackers are always three steps ahead, whats the point?
- ravenstine 4y agoI was thinking the same thing. If I was intent on using the dev tools for who knows what with MailChimp, it would merely be a roadblock. I might even be more compelled to achieve my goal just to defeat their bullshit. Not that I would ever use MailChimp.
- amyjess 4y agoThis is worrying since I have accidently opened dev tools hundreds of times by clicking both mouse buttons when my cursor is near the bottom of the screen. I have a tic disorder (not Tourette's, because my tics are all nonverbal). One of my tics is that I mash both mouse buttons over empty space pretty frequently. I even go out of my way to keep my cursor positioned over empty space so I can mash the mouse buttons when I need to, and it's not uncommon for me to move the cursor while mashing the buttons. If the cursor is towards the bottom of the screen, that's pretty much guaranteed to open dev tools, since all it takes is a small motion of the cursor with the right-click menu open to hit the 'Inspect' option.
- serf 4y ago>I even go out of my way to keep my cursor positioned over empty space so I can mash the mouse buttons when I need to I have severe and sporadic clonus in my mousin' arm. I do exactly the same thing when I need to keep my hand on the mouse. Another thing that I have done off-and-on to accomodate certain software is to have my keyboard or mouse 'toggled' off and on with an autohotkey (or equivalent) script. If I need to rest or wait for something with my hands on the hardware then I toggle the thing off with an easy-to-reach hotkey of some sort until i'm ready to actually type/mouse.
- laweijfmvo 4y agoSame, because sometimes I hit Ctrl-Shift-C* to copy something by mistake, which opens the Console. * The copy command for many terminal apps on linux
- computerfriend 4y agoSame, it's maddening.
- opinionsonly01 4y ago> I have a tic disorder (not Tourette's, because my tics are all nonverbal). That's still Tourette's. Tourette's is described as an involuntary movement /or/ sound.
- somat 4y agoI have seen websites that leave a few "debugger" keywords in the code and then use timing code to detect if you have the dev tools open. that is, if it takes too long to get to a check point, as in a person had to click resume, you know the debugger is open. It is very crude method but I guess was the best they came up with. On firefox the easy way to get around this is by disabling breakpoints, the harder way is a userscript.
- neilv 4y agoWould be funny if it were a corporate reaction to a security researcher contacting them about some silly web API design (e.g., endpoint taking an arbitrary account ID without authorization check). In the writeup, the researcher illustrates by copying the service URL from the browser's dev tools. And so the obvious corporate corrective action is...
- dariusj18 4y agoI wondered why I kept getting blocked. I accidentally open dev tools all the time
- breakingrules 4y agoafter a few weeks inside their api, sounds like a solution intuit's developers would come up with.
- trasz3 4y agoCompany in spam sending business does other unethical things, how surprising.
- scosman 4y agoMailchimp previously cranked up pricing on their Mandrill product dramatically, with minimal warning, no opt in, and unsympathetic tone from C-suite. Mailchimp is pretty hostile to developers. I don't recommend using them after that experience.
- eclipticplane 4y agoI'm convinced at this point they are trying to slowly tank Mandrill to get people to stop using it. Tons of downtime, worsening delivery problems, no active development -- or support even -- for years, worse pricing, ...
- inconceivable 4y agoi signed up for a test account for a POC i'm developing, went through the whole rigamarole of setting up spf and dkim and all of that, successfully used their API and... nothing. no delivery of any email to my own domain. no response from support, since i haven't paid yet i guess. seems like they want to eject their more sophisticated dev customers. guess i can't blame them, but why bother, just shut the damn thing down instead of wasting everyone's time.
- yakubin 4y agoThat's unfortunate. My muscle memory sometimes makes me open DevTools even unintentionally when I try to copy text and press Ctrl+Shift+C.
- yawnxyz 4y agoWhoa I've done it many times on MailChimp to correct my newsletters. Sooner or later I'll end up on their blacklist. Ugh.
- 255kb 4y agoThis also happened to me a while ago after testing a form multiple times. My IP for banned for several hours. Horrendous user experience.
- 1970-01-01 4y agoSo can I block mailchimp spam by signing-up and opening my browser dev toolkit? Does this hack work both ways?
- GTP 4y agoHow can they detect that?
- 1970-01-01 4y agohttps://mailchimp.com/about/security/#Protecting_Ourselves_Against_You https://mailchimp.com/about/security/#Protecting_Ourselves_A... >Yes, you heard that correctly. We can secure ourselves like Fort Knox, but if your computer gets compromised and someone gets into your Mailchimp account, that's not good for either of us. So mailchimp is SOC2, ISO, PCI, etc. and still gets worried about themselves if a user account is hacked.
- suresk 4y agoNot defending their actions in this particular case, but yes, I think it is completely reasonable for a service like MailChimp to be concerned about unauthorized use of user accounts. If someone takes over a MailChimp account, it is almost certainly to send spam/fraud type stuff, which causes harm to MailChimp in various ways. Compliance with those standards doesn't mean they aren't potentially impacted by that sort of thing, and doing what they can to detect and mitigate unauthorized user account usages is part of at least a few of them.
- Traubenfuchs 4y agoThat openly user hostile language must be one of its kind.
- dylan604 4y agoreading further down that page... "We retain a law firm in the UK to consult on EU privacy issues." wouldn't it be better to retain a law firm that's actually in the EU? hiring a UK law firm for EU matters is no different that hiring a US law firm, or AUS, or whatever non-EU country
- jkaplowitz 4y agoWhile that is true in the sense that the UK is no longer in the EU, I don't believe UK law has yet diverged from EU law on any relevant privacy issues, so UK firms would still have significant experience in this area. A firm within the EU would be a better choice, I agree.
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- DueDilligence 4y ago[dead]