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"know how a computer works" might be a bad phrasing, "know how to use a computer" is in my experience where even developers with computer science degrees are so

"know how a computer works" might be a bad phrasing, "know how to use a computer" is in my experience where even developers with computer science degrees are sometimes useless. They can tell me HOW it works, but they still can't map their network drives, press stupid buttons but somehow lock up when the only one on the screen is "OK", and sometimes even say things like "help me out, I'm not a computer guy" I had this vision when I got into computers that I'd be working with a lot of people who like and regularly use computers. No. I work with a bunch of people that heard computers were a good gig that paid well and got a degree that makes them useful in one very very specific area or at least seem useful in that area while they frustrate everyone around them until we get the email about how great it's been "accomplishing so much with" us but they've accepted a management role somewhere else. There are some solid folks out there, but the ratio is indeed bad.

ticviking 4y ago
Software has gotten so complicated that it is inevitable that each of us only deeply understand part of it. Add to that the constantly changing standards and UIs, and things I knew how to do a year ago in Win 10, or 5 years ago in linux work differently. That's fine, but I only have maybe 1-2 hours a day to keep up with the things that a relevant to my day-to-day job function. I've known maybe a dozen engineers who could describe the entire boot sequence all the way to the server being ready to receive a request, at a level where they could debug each stage and independently fill in the gaps. Same for the "enter text in hackernews textbox" or any of the other widely known full stack tasks. I could tell you how I might build one of those but I'll inevitably be missing some associated detail.
- s1gsegv 4y ago
  One data point: I'm someone who could explain, in pretty excruciating detail, every step of that process from the power sequence and boot ROM, all the way up to the JIT engines under the modern web browser. I got a new position about 9 months ago, at a company that's not taking the current economic environment with much grace. Over the past 9 months the workplace has changed pretty drastically from what originally drew me here, so I'm looking for something new. (Which pains me, because I generally do not "job hop" like this, but most jobs also don't bait-and-switch like this) I've gotten zero replies so far. There's a striking lack of "interesting" jobs to do on the market right now, and I'm shocked at the lack of interest I'm getting when I find them given my skillet, if I may be so bold. I think it's just a REALLY bad market out there.
giantg2 4y ago
"still can't map their network drives, press stupid buttons" To be fair, a lot of this may be due to lack of organizational knowledge transfer. I might be able to map a network drive at home, but I'd need someone to tell me what the location and stuff is if it's a pretty-existing drive at work. But then again, maybe I'm one of the shitty developers you're talking about. I know I'm a low performer.
Baljhin 4y ago
Wouldn't it be a fairer criticism to say that Devs-with-CompScis are to computers what e.g. jet plane designers are to high-tech jets? (believe me, I'm not gonzo for Devs, but stick with me here) - those engineers design the slickest, leanest& meanest symbols of the advances in aeronautics - but don't, never have, never will actually fly a plane. Even a simple one.
- re-thc 4y ago
  Like high tech Electron apps?
matwood 4y ago
> can't map their network drives Windows, Linux, macOS? NFS, Samba, etc…? Simple folder share or are there AD credentials involved. We haven’t touched on what’s available in the cloud like efs. There is so much now, that’s it’s hard to know it all. What they should be able to do is have some idea on what to google for.

ticviking 4y ago

Software has gotten so complicated that it is inevitable that each of us only deeply understand part of it. Add to that the constantly changing standards and UIs, and things I knew how to do a year ago in Win 10, or 5 years ago in linux work differently. That's fine, but I only have maybe 1-2 hours a day to keep up with the things that a relevant to my day-to-day job function. I've known maybe a dozen engineers who could describe the entire boot sequence all the way to the server being ready to receive a request, at a level where they could debug each stage and independently fill in the gaps. Same for the "enter text in hackernews textbox" or any of the other widely known full stack tasks. I could tell you how I might build one of those but I'll inevitably be missing some associated detail.

s1gsegv 4y ago
One data point: I'm someone who could explain, in pretty excruciating detail, every step of that process from the power sequence and boot ROM, all the way up to the JIT engines under the modern web browser. I got a new position about 9 months ago, at a company that's not taking the current economic environment with much grace. Over the past 9 months the workplace has changed pretty drastically from what originally drew me here, so I'm looking for something new. (Which pains me, because I generally do not "job hop" like this, but most jobs also don't bait-and-switch like this) I've gotten zero replies so far. There's a striking lack of "interesting" jobs to do on the market right now, and I'm shocked at the lack of interest I'm getting when I find them given my skillet, if I may be so bold. I think it's just a REALLY bad market out there.

giantg2 4y ago

"still can't map their network drives, press stupid buttons" To be fair, a lot of this may be due to lack of organizational knowledge transfer. I might be able to map a network drive at home, but I'd need someone to tell me what the location and stuff is if it's a pretty-existing drive at work. But then again, maybe I'm one of the shitty developers you're talking about. I know I'm a low performer.

Baljhin 4y ago

Wouldn't it be a fairer criticism to say that Devs-with-CompScis are to computers what e.g. jet plane designers are to high-tech jets? (believe me, I'm not gonzo for Devs, but stick with me here) - those engineers design the slickest, leanest& meanest symbols of the advances in aeronautics - but don't, never have, never will actually fly a plane. Even a simple one.

re-thc 4y ago
Like high tech Electron apps?

matwood 4y ago

> can't map their network drives Windows, Linux, macOS? NFS, Samba, etc…? Simple folder share or are there AD credentials involved. We haven’t touched on what’s available in the cloud like efs. There is so much now, that’s it’s hard to know it all. What they should be able to do is have some idea on what to google for.