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Nobody seems to mention the fact that most of VR games out there require using the hard-to-familiarize hard-to-memorize joysticks to interact with the game. I

• deleted 4y ago
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• benoliver999 4y ago
  This is why I'm really tempted by Gran Turismo on PS5 with VR. You just use your normal controller or wheel.
  • freeone3000 4y ago
    Mapping can still be fairly iffy... Project Cars gets it right, but Forza Horizon has way too much "slop".
• spudlyo 4y ago
  Any game where you're seated in some kind of cockpit is my idea of a perfect VR game. This way you can be comfortably sit at your desk with familiar controls, but still have immersive head tracking. For me, I'd love to see a WWI or WWII air combat kind of game like the old Red Baron or IL-2 Sturmovik.
  • Arrath 4y ago
    VTOL VR is fucking amazing for this. You're right there in the cockpit, and you have to reach out and hit buttons and fiddle with dials around the MFDs and everything. Its so, so, so good.
  • Wojtkie 4y ago
    Star Wars Squadrons really excels with this. It seemed like it was a VR only game before being released non-VR, but the style of game really would take well to VR.
    • bitL 4y ago
      I couldn't get that one working with my controllers in VR (HP Reverb G2). I could see the initial screen and being seated in a cockpit, but nothing responded to anything I was doing.
      • soylentcola 4y ago
        I couldn't even get a handle on mapping to my throttle/stick. There were so many odd controls that didn't map to intuitive keys and I got frustrated trying to manually map everything when I didn't have any real idea of what all of the controls were without playing a bit of the game. I kept getting stuck unable to control or do things during the game and eventually gave up since it had been a promotional free download and I wasn't invested enough to spend more than an hour or two trying to get it set up.
  • TylerE 4y ago
    The IL-2 series has seen continual releases. The most recent, IL-2 Sturmovik: Battle of Normandy, was released last year.
    • meheleventyone 4y ago
      And works in VR and has a small but enthusiastic multiplayer scene. It's easily the thing I've spent most time doing in VR.
• sli 4y ago
  This seems like a strange example because out of my fairly large VR game collection, I can't think of a single shooter where reloading is anything different from just physically doing a reload action like you would with a real gun. I can only think of two games where the ammo is stored differently than real life (Compound and Alyx), the rest have ammo pouches and belts. I can think of one smaller game where reloading is different, and that's Space Pirate Trainer, where you bring your guns behind your back for a moment. But that's more of an arcade game than what most people mean when they talk about shooters. Maybe give Subnautica a try. Or the old version of HL2 on VR.
  • mkehrt 4y ago
    > I can't think of a single shooter where reloading is anything different from just physically doing a reload action like you would with a real gun. This seems exactly what the OP is complaining about. Why would you want that, rather than just hitting 'r' or whatever? (I literally have no idea how to reload a gun, FWIW. Having it be "realistic" doesn't actually make it easy or discoverable.)
    • Bjartr 4y ago
      > Why would you want that, rather than just hitting 'r' or whatever? I think it's more engaging/immersive not because it's more realistic, but rather because it adds nuance to the action and makes it more of a skill to be learned. The lows of the "oh shit" moment of flubbing a reload in the middle of a firefight and the highs of pulling off a perfectly timed John Wick-esque reload in the middle of a firefight are much more intense than just tapping a button. It's a more embodied version of the "reload bar" mechanic in some games where you can just hit the reload button for a normal reload or hit it twice with good timing to get a better/faster reload, but if you miss the sweet spot you get a worse/slower reload.
    • PurpleRamen 4y ago
      > Why would you want that, rather than just hitting 'r' or whatever? Because it's more immersive. > Having it be "realistic" doesn't actually make it easy or discoverable. Isn't it the games job to teach you this? Like it's teaching you which button to use?
• barbazoo 4y ago
  > only to forget how to reload your damn gun after a couple of weeks/months of not playing. I played that Jedi game on PS5 the other day and found it really intuitive how they implemented the reloading. There you have to pull back this little virtual lever with your non-gun hand. I liked that much better than remembering some button even if it's not 100% realistic.
• bitwize 4y ago
  Rez is the killer VR app. It's close to what you describe: look at what you want to shoot, mash the button (DualShock controller works fine). I plunked down $500 for PSVR just to play Rez Infinite; other VR games I got to play on it were gravy.
  • zoklet-enjoyer 4y ago
    Oh shit! I wanted that game so bad on Dreamcast when I was a kid. I didn't know there was one out for psvr
    • cableshaft 4y ago
      It's also on Quest 2, but without the eye tracking for aiming that PSVR2 has.
      • bitwize 4y ago
        TIL that Rez Infinite on PSVR2 has eye tracking! I only played it on OG PSVR.
        • cableshaft 4y ago
          Yeah I don't have a PSVR2 myself, just happened to hear someone talk about it on a podcast.
• Delento 4y ago
  But you can do that with a lot of games?!? Did you never just tried that out? Lime you can stay seated in Skyrim and co
• cultofmetatron 4y ago
  > I want Cities Skylines VR that exists. there's a version in the occulus app store as we speak
• bitL 4y ago
  MS Flight Simulator 2020 or Automobilista 2 are absolutely awesome VR games that can be controlled by keyboard only in real time and there is vorpX allowing older games to be played in VR. Surely, Alyx is slow, Hellblade has restricted movement, but those strange VR controllers allow some interesting experiences like Adr1ft when one feels like a real astronaut in open space.
• spywaregorilla 4y ago
  Seems like a wild take to me. VR is not nearly as immersive as people say. But reloading guns with physical interactions is one of the few bits that does feel very good.
• stephc_int13 4y ago
  I agree that for AR/VR or motion based "experiences" and games, the controls always are the weakest point, and I think this is crucial to understand the slow adoption. This is also more fundamental and difficult to solve than it seems. Beating the seemingly low-tech but widely successful existing control systems is not a given. Most alternatives are inferior.
  • Eisenstein 4y ago
    The Wii did it easily. Racing simulators and flight simulators do it all the time. Gamepad controls exist because they have been iteratively refined to be the best way to play a game sitting on a couch. Existing VR controls are great now that the Quest Pro controllers can self-track. The problems have been that you either had to setup lighthouses around your room to track you or have your hands always be in sight of the headset cameras. However, the QPro controllers can track independently like the headset itself by using SLAM and the difference is huge. I don't see why you would think that the controls are difficult to solve. The problem isn't the controls -- the problem is that people don't realize how tiring it is to actually physically do the things you do in a video game, even on a very basic level. This makes VR great for getting physical activity -- but it makes for a very bad 'lazy day gaming' or 'after work gaming' recreation. It sounds awesome to think about being in VR and being in the FPS until you realize that people who fight wars as infantry for real have to be in amazing shape.
    • JohnFen 4y ago
      > It sounds awesome to think about being in VR and being in the FPS Yes. This is one of the things that leads to the counterintuitive truth that if you want a fully immersive and fun game (defining "immersive" as "the player is no longer aware that the game world is not their actual reality), you don't actually want too much realism. What you want is an "effortlessness" -- the ability for the player to trigger an action without effort or conscious thought.
  • Melatonic 4y ago
    There are places like Two Bit Circus in Los Angeles that do this beautifully - they have odd VR games that you could never play at home because they have a crazy unique controller setup. One in particular that I feel like is critically underrated (mainly due to the game itself being a bit boring) is a flying game. You lay down in this bird like giant controller with your arms at your sides and there are multiple fans blowing in your face. You can tilt the whole thing, move the "wings" to change your speed and angle / elevation and do lots of other movements. The game itself is basically just cruising around a virtual world (they have a few different types) but I thought it was super cool. The fans even change speed and direction based on how you are flying. If the game itself was more engaging (like say it was multiplayer and maybe you were piloting a mechanical "bird" with lasers and whatnot) I think it would be pretty freaking awesome. But the "controller" of course must be very expensive and takes up a ton of space so it is really not useable at home unless you have a ton of extra space and disposable income. And of course it is a bit of a one trick pony.
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• bastardoperator 4y ago
  Isn't your head supposed to be the mouse?
  • CSSer 4y ago
    Don't shoot me for being facetious but I'm picturing someone making chicken-like pecking/bobbing motions with their head to select things.
• AnIdiotOnTheNet 4y ago
  Weird take if you ask me. The 2D versions of those games seem to be what you want, but with 3D visuals I guess. Some kind of 3D monitor seems more fitting than "VR". VR is all about the immersion, and that means doing physical actions that approximate real world actions. That's the whole point, and that's why the vast majority of VR games (and the popular ones of course) incorporate that physicality.
• wkat4242 4y ago
  I don't agree. I think console games with their complex button combos are much harder to memorize. In VR you can do a lot with your hands using the controllers. No button to reload but you insert a new clip and slide back if you emptied the chamber. PS I still spend a lot of time in the 'metaverse'. In VR chat, in games and I develop for work too.
• Pxtl 4y ago
  Players figured out WSAD and mouse, they'll figure out this for a game that makes it worth it. It's just nothing has made it worth it yet. And as for CSGO type things, too many players find traditional FPS gameplay on VR to be puke-city.
• NikolaNovak 4y ago
  This is fascinating, because my instinct is completely opposite :) I enjoy VR games for their easy-start/easy-stop hassle-free/memorization-free aspect. If I want a 3 hour session of complex game, I start my PC. If I have 10 minutes and just want to PLAY during those 10 minutes, I pick up my Quest2 and just... go. Whether I played yesterday or month ago, they tend to be intuitive. I absolutely positively do not want mouse and keyboard to be part of my VR experience :-). Maybe your complaint is about bad VR games, because those certainly exist!
  • crazygringo 4y ago
    Yup I was going to say the same. If I want to go back and play GTA V or RDR2 after a few months, I'm going to spend ~10 minutes finding a guide to my Xbox controller and trying to remember how you do all ~30 actions. And then still spend the next 30 minutes pressing the wrong buttons until I finally get back in my muscle memory. On my Quest 2, you just go. Of course the games tend to be much simpler too. But memorizing how to use the controllers has just never been something I had to do.
• Melatonic 4y ago
  I assumed this was possible - it was when I was working with very early VR prototypes. I think what is going to end up being big is the setup where you have a camera on top of a monitor or TV that just does head tracking. As TV's get larger and cheaper (and projectors better and better) having no headset but nice head tracking is a great middleground to VR. Plus other people can easily watch you play (and it is easier for noobs to get into). Most games do not really need full 360 degree head movement - you can just turn around with a keyboard or controller as you normally would.
• baby 4y ago
  Wat, everything is so much more instinctive in VR. I guess some people really experience things differently oO
• copymoro 4y ago
  > Nobody seems to mention the fact that most of VR games out there require using the hard-to-familiarize hard-to-memorize joysticks to interact with the game. > I own a Valve Index and I mostly don't play it because of it's just really a hassle to have to physically stand up (or even seated) and to wave your arms around, only to forget how to reload your damn gun after a couple of weeks/months of not playing. > I wish that people built simple keyboard-and-mouse VR games that I could enjoy the VRness of the experience using my fingers and palms like I'm used to in the past 30 years. all I hear you saying is that you're an older person now, and that you learned to play with a controller and that's how games should be. well, I'm even older (or lazier) because I never even learned to play FPS games with a controller. WASD+mouse for me please. I always see people confusing familiarity with "simplicity" and "ease of use". of course familiar things are better! but let's not mangle together the simple and well-made with the familiar; though it's hard to do this.
  • joemi 4y ago
    The part that you quoted says "I wish that people built simple keyboard-and-mouse VR games" -- that sounds to me like they mean the same thing you mean when you say "WASD+mouse for me please".
• spookie 4y ago
  The VR version is more often than not more intuitive than the mouse/keyboard combo or even a traditional controller. Furthermore, the idea that having to stand up (not always true) and perform natural arm movements being bad is just silly to me. Arguably, the best performing VR game is Beat Saber.
• nanidin 4y ago
  Red Alert VR! I too thought RTS would be awesome in VR. But alas, making games was beaten out of me by the sentiment that game development isn’t professionally viable without major crunch time. Failing of my own, but I hope someone tries! I had Oculus Rift in my living room, then upgraded to Index. The difference in lighthouse placement basically reduced my usage of Index vs Rift by 75%. It’s impossible to get out and use casually.