5 ms·

My favorite old UNIX UIs are 4Dwm, Rhapsody, and NEXTSTEP's for sure. However I do think working in modern macOS is pretty nice; I honestly like the Ventura red

by ar9av 4y ago

My favorite old UNIX UIs are 4Dwm, Rhapsody, and NEXTSTEP's for sure. However I do think working in modern macOS is pretty nice; I honestly like the Ventura redesign a lot, though that may be an unpopular opinion(?).

fsckboy 4y ago
>However I do think working in modern macOS is pretty nice I have hated the Mac interface from day 1, for very simple reasons: 1. I want my file-edit-windows menu on every window, not sharing the top of the screen (the whole promise of the personal computer was that I could have what I want, why can't I have this? fuck Jobs and Jony and anybody who substitutes their own preferences for yours and then claims to be a high priest) The reason is, I have multiple app windows open, and I routinely look from one app to another, and then I look where I want to click, simultaneously moving the mouse and clic... if my app does not have the focus, the whole eye and arm movement was a wasted expensive set of motions, now i'm even forgetting what I wanted to do while figuring out where I have to go click to get the focus moved. the icing on my UI cake is using focus-follows-mouse. I don't require it, but I like it and it is antithetical to the one-size-fits-all everybody-must-conform Apple way. 2. I want a three button mouse. period. I don't want to learn gestures, click in special places, and I don't want my different OSes to be different in ways that don't need to be. Would it really hurt Apple's feelings if I could have menus where i want them? Yeah, and if you like where Apple's menus are, why can't you have them? UX designers are so narrow in their thinking. The whole promise of personal computers was... F J & J
- hyperjeff 4y ago
  There’s no helping with your first complaint (UI philosophy difference), but fwiw you can both have focus-follows-mouse (for either the whole OS or just Terminal, both work great) and multiple button support (I use a 4-button trackball with other fancy bits). That said, despite being able to hack lots about the system, it would definitely be nice to have deeper modifications allowed. Alternate kinds of menus, pointers and windows would be nice, where users could experiment with new UI concepts, etc. I personally really miss NeXTSTEP’s tear off menus, which were in early OS X builds until Aqua got rid of them.
pjmlp 4y ago
NeWS, OpenWindows, Indigo Magic Desktop, CDE, NeXTSTEP, on my case. Nowadays I get by with XFCE when still doing Linux desktop session.
jhfdbkofdchk 4y ago
It’s fine except for the Settings app.
- lockhouse 4y ago
  As a frequent iPad user, I love the new settings app in Ventura. I can see though why long time Mac users would hate it though, it’s a massive change and it moved everything.
  - bluedino 4y ago
    Do you think it's an improvement over the old one? Why?
    - lockhouse 4y ago
      I do just for consistency within the overall Apple ecosystem.
    - thesuitonym 4y ago
      I think it is. The organization isn't quite right, and definitely needs to be worked on, but I like the sidebar approach.
    - agloe_dreams 4y ago
      For a user with the whole ecosystem, it is far more consistent with iPhone and iPad. From that angle it is so much better it is silly.
      - bogantech 4y ago
        Having to type by poking away at an onscreen keyboard would be consistent too but we can all agree that it would suck.
- garyrob 4y ago
  Even the Settings app is OK with me... speaking as a Mac user (almost) continuously since the original Mac Plus (although I use Linux for servers): I really just couldn't care less about the change in the settings app. I usually typed something into the Spotlight search area to find what I wanted in the old version, and I do the same thing now. I just didn't have to change settings enough to have remembered their old locations.
peepee1982 4y ago
This kind of window decoration is my favorite, too. Modern UIs look more elegant. But I find it easier to conceptualize different contexts on my screen with thicker, embossed, brutal border indicators. I also simply like the aesthetics for their own sake.
mattl 4y ago
I like Stage Manager, it brings back the single window mode from early versions of Mac OS X and removes the need for a defaults hack to get it working.
- bobochan 4y ago
  I have not found it especially useful on my MBP, but it is a huge improvement for me on the iPad with keyboard and mouse. It feels much more natural now to have two windows open and quickly switch between apps. I used my iPad for about 80% of my work now, up from 10-15%.
kirbyfan64sos 4y ago
Worth noting that, from what I gathered, a lot of dislike towards Ventura's new UI is often less the style and more just various inconsistencies / strange behavior in their execution of it.
- SllX 4y ago
  The new criticisms directed at Ventura are less about the style because the style criticisms date back to Big Sur and have been talked to death. The lack of contrast and the over-generous menu spacing isn’t any better today than it was in November 2020.
tambourine_man 4y ago
I hate it with a passion. Harder to user, less accessible and intuitive. It hurts me as the Mac is my main work tool and has been for almost 40 years. It’s hard to watch it drift into stupidity.
- mistrial9 4y ago
  agree - it is the gravitational pull of iPhone revenues

by ar9av 4y ago

fsckboy 4y ago

>However I do think working in modern macOS is pretty nice I have hated the Mac interface from day 1, for very simple reasons: 1. I want my file-edit-windows menu on every window, not sharing the top of the screen (the whole promise of the personal computer was that I could have what I want, why can't I have this? fuck Jobs and Jony and anybody who substitutes their own preferences for yours and then claims to be a high priest) The reason is, I have multiple app windows open, and I routinely look from one app to another, and then I look where I want to click, simultaneously moving the mouse and clic... if my app does not have the focus, the whole eye and arm movement was a wasted expensive set of motions, now i'm even forgetting what I wanted to do while figuring out where I have to go click to get the focus moved. the icing on my UI cake is using focus-follows-mouse. I don't require it, but I like it and it is antithetical to the one-size-fits-all everybody-must-conform Apple way. 2. I want a three button mouse. period. I don't want to learn gestures, click in special places, and I don't want my different OSes to be different in ways that don't need to be. Would it really hurt Apple's feelings if I could have menus where i want them? Yeah, and if you like where Apple's menus are, why can't you have them? UX designers are so narrow in their thinking. The whole promise of personal computers was... F J & J

hyperjeff 4y ago
There’s no helping with your first complaint (UI philosophy difference), but fwiw you can both have focus-follows-mouse (for either the whole OS or just Terminal, both work great) and multiple button support (I use a 4-button trackball with other fancy bits). That said, despite being able to hack lots about the system, it would definitely be nice to have deeper modifications allowed. Alternate kinds of menus, pointers and windows would be nice, where users could experiment with new UI concepts, etc. I personally really miss NeXTSTEP’s tear off menus, which were in early OS X builds until Aqua got rid of them.

pjmlp 4y ago

NeWS, OpenWindows, Indigo Magic Desktop, CDE, NeXTSTEP, on my case. Nowadays I get by with XFCE when still doing Linux desktop session.

jhfdbkofdchk 4y ago

It’s fine except for the Settings app.

lockhouse 4y ago
As a frequent iPad user, I love the new settings app in Ventura. I can see though why long time Mac users would hate it though, it’s a massive change and it moved everything.
- bluedino 4y ago
  Do you think it's an improvement over the old one? Why?
  - lockhouse 4y ago
    I do just for consistency within the overall Apple ecosystem.
  - thesuitonym 4y ago
    I think it is. The organization isn't quite right, and definitely needs to be worked on, but I like the sidebar approach.
  - agloe_dreams 4y ago
    For a user with the whole ecosystem, it is far more consistent with iPhone and iPad. From that angle it is so much better it is silly.
    - bogantech 4y ago
      Having to type by poking away at an onscreen keyboard would be consistent too but we can all agree that it would suck.
garyrob 4y ago
Even the Settings app is OK with me... speaking as a Mac user (almost) continuously since the original Mac Plus (although I use Linux for servers): I really just couldn't care less about the change in the settings app. I usually typed something into the Spotlight search area to find what I wanted in the old version, and I do the same thing now. I just didn't have to change settings enough to have remembered their old locations.

peepee1982 4y ago

This kind of window decoration is my favorite, too. Modern UIs look more elegant. But I find it easier to conceptualize different contexts on my screen with thicker, embossed, brutal border indicators. I also simply like the aesthetics for their own sake.

mattl 4y ago

I like Stage Manager, it brings back the single window mode from early versions of Mac OS X and removes the need for a defaults hack to get it working.

bobochan 4y ago
I have not found it especially useful on my MBP, but it is a huge improvement for me on the iPad with keyboard and mouse. It feels much more natural now to have two windows open and quickly switch between apps. I used my iPad for about 80% of my work now, up from 10-15%.

kirbyfan64sos 4y ago

Worth noting that, from what I gathered, a lot of dislike towards Ventura's new UI is often less the style and more just various inconsistencies / strange behavior in their execution of it.

SllX 4y ago
The new criticisms directed at Ventura are less about the style because the style criticisms date back to Big Sur and have been talked to death. The lack of contrast and the over-generous menu spacing isn’t any better today than it was in November 2020.

tambourine_man 4y ago

I hate it with a passion. Harder to user, less accessible and intuitive. It hurts me as the Mac is my main work tool and has been for almost 40 years. It’s hard to watch it drift into stupidity.

mistrial9 4y ago
agree - it is the gravitational pull of iPhone revenues