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Sugar is bad and so are sweeteners. The question is, what is the least worst option? Maybe that is to cut sweet things out of our diet completely.

• INTPenis 4y ago
  Just eat less sugar. Like once a week is fine. The problem with sugar isn't consuming it, but rather consuming it all the time. And of course I mean excessive sugar, not the 4 grams that are in every 100 grams of bread.
  • samwillis 4y ago
    Interesting to note that bread in the US tends to have a significantly higher sugar content than in Europe, as much as 13g per 100g.
    • quickthrower2 4y ago
      Yeah you have to be picky and go for keto branded options to find 4% carb bread
      • brnt 4y ago
        Well, they were talking about (added) sugar, not carbs in general. How can you have bread without carbohydrates? What is it made of then?
        • bdcravens 4y ago
          It usually is made of almond or coconut flour. Most "keto" bread isn't devoid of carbs, but often has a lot of dietary fiber, which is undigestable.
          • quietbritishjim 4y ago
            Almond and coconut flour are likely to have more (natural) sugar in than wheat flour. Bread made with coconut flour in particular is surely going to have more total sugar than regular bread with a little added sugar. A more reasonable explanation is that the comment that triggered this discussion was just from someone who used the wrong word by accident or totally misunderstands what carbs are.
            • andy_ppp 4y ago
              The gut doesn't absorb sugar as well in the presence of fibre so I think people tend to subtract the amount of fibre from the total carbs to come up with something called net-carbs. No idea how well this works in practice of course but there is definitely some high percentage of sugar not absorbed for every gram of fibre added.
          • dghughes 4y ago
            I'd say at that point just give up on eating bread. Something bread-shaped and fluffy could be made of anything.
        • heftig 4y ago
          Maybe making "bread" which is almost entirely cellulose would be possible. Still a carbohydrate, but not a digestible one.
          • indymike 4y ago
            This is what most keto breads are. Source: the two loafs in my bread drawer that report 23g of carbs and 19g dietary fiber. Some of that 19g is cellulose.
            • Xenoamorphous 4y ago
              And how’s the taste in those?
              • indymike 4y ago
                It varies by brand and type. Some are pretty bad. Aunt Millie's has a couple of really good ones, particularly their 5 seed and white. Aldi's white keto is good, too. Lewis has a good keto Hawaiian loaf. For whatever reason the keto wheat breads I've tried are a little too... woody for me. I'm not sure if they are available outside the Midwest. To be honest, I'm really happy keto bread exists because for about two years, I couldn't eat sandwiches (I have to eat less than 50g of non-fiber carbohydrate per day... so just the bread on a sandwich usually takes 90% + of that).
        • quickthrower2 4y ago
          Sorry brain fart there! Anyway now I have changed the subject here is an example https://www.woolworths.com.au/shop/productdetails/164022 https://www.woolworths.com.au/shop/productdetails/164022
    • BoorishBears 4y ago
      I'm convinced this meme persists because tourists trying to save a dollar get the absolute dirt cheapest bread they can find in some random gas station, that no normal person would eat unless they were dying. 13g of sugar is absurd and is not normal bread in the US. Even Bimbo, the poster child for "cheap nutrition-less imitation bread" caps out at 4g
      • INTPenis 4y ago
        Yeah I was just going to say that even in Sweden there is sweeter bread. I just get the bread that is in the range of 4-7 grams so I spoke from personal experience. It ranges from 3-10 grams iirc. Maybe even higher. Let people get unhealthy food, that's not what we need to focus on, we need to focus on proper and correct labels on food so people can make an informed decision.
      • switch007 4y ago
        To be fair, they did say 'as much as'. First cheap looking bread I found at Wallmart at $1.32, just over 4g sugar/100g https://www.walmart.com/ip/Great-Value-White-Sandwich-Bread-20-oz/10315752?athbdg=L1200 https://www.walmart.com/ip/Great-Value-White-Sandwich-Bread-... Another one, but with honey added, 8g sugar/100g https://www.walmart.com/ip/Nature-s-Own-Honey-Wheat-Sandwich-Bread-Loaf-20-oz/10450000 https://www.walmart.com/ip/Nature-s-Own-Honey-Wheat-Sandwich... The closest I found was Cinnamon Bread, with 15.7g sugar/100g, which is expected as it's basically a dessert (though oddly, they list all of the sugar as added sugar ! What are those raisins made of??) https://www.walmart.com/ip/Cinnabon-Cinnamon-Bread-Bakery-Inspired-Sliced-Bread-with-Cinnamon-Bursts-16-oz-Loaf/864702169 https://www.walmart.com/ip/Cinnabon-Cinnamon-Bread-Bakery-In...
        • AlecSchueler 4y ago
          And, to be fair again, you can buy comparable bread in Europe. Here's a Dutch raisin bread with 23.2 g: https://www.jumbo.com/producten/goudeerlijk-rozijnenbrood-half-304655STK https://www.jumbo.com/producten/goudeerlijk-rozijnenbrood-ha...
          • 4y ago
  • amelius 4y ago
    > Just eat less sugar. Like once a week is fine. The problem is that most stuff you can buy is so full of sugar that it tastes horrible if you only eat it once a week.
    • switch007 4y ago
      But that's a feature, not a bug. That's your tongue telling you not to eat that food. It's better to find taste and satiation with e.g. fats, herbs, spices instead.
    • Rapzid 4y ago
      People seem to live wildly different lives in this regard. Nothing I purchase regularly has sugar in it.
    • INTPenis 4y ago
      What? Have you tried lowering your tolerance for sugar? Try it, because it'll make everything taste wonderful. All other flavors come out when you have a lower sugar tolerance.
  • johnnymorgan 4y ago
    I make my own bread, it's cheaper and waaaay less sugar. Wonder bread isn't bread, plus if you have gut flora issues with gluten, leave the dough in fridge for a week to ferment and then bake that up with some olive oil brushed on-top and some nice big salt chunks. I got into it because my son is severely autistic and the store bought stuff additives drive him crazy. We tracked it down to mostly soy products that he had a reaction to and then it translated into organics and home made everything. Honestly I don't miss any of the bad food and just can't buy the garbage any more That's how I feel about 99% of stuff in grocery stores now. I barely buy anything but fresh and frozen veg, meat, dairy and coffee :)
    • johnnymorgan 4y ago
      Side note, the flour I use is organic we get from Costco and is grown in Quebec. The inflationary pressure did not effect the price of organics from our side. Flour, chicken and pork organics have stayed basically the same price over the last few years. The premium on organics appears to be closing due to the lower fuel/transport costs not really changing much for them and already having a premium built in. It's an example of shorter supply chain migration I did not expect.
  • donatj 4y ago
    Regardless of added sugars, all bread is about 50% carbohydrates. As far as your body is concerned the only real difference between straight sugar and more complex carbohydrates is how long it takes to metabolize. Complex carbohydrate are less of a sudden jump to your blood sugar, but about the same net effect overall. You’re better off limiting carbohydrates in general than just refined sugar.
• yarg 4y ago
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miraculin https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miraculin is cool as shit, but the FDA said no. I'm not sure that scaling is an option outside of GM crops - I can't imagine that it's being synthesised. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synsepalum_dulcificum https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synsepalum_dulcificum
  • cactusplant7374 4y ago
    I tried an extract of this as a kid. Maybe I’ll try growing it again.
  • loufe 4y ago
    I'm a huge fan of sour beer. My favourite brewery released a beer last year, each bottle with a small ziplock bag elastic band-tied to the neck containing a dehyderated "miracle berry" (the full name referenced in the first sentence of that Wiki article: "Synsepalum dulcificum"). You can get them for around a dollar (Canadian) each on amazon. It was an awesome gimmick. The different in taste of a sour beer, as with many foods, before the berry and a couple of minutes after chewing/swallowing it is night and day. I bought as many as I could, it is such a cool experience. I've heard anecdotes that it makes even vinegar palatable. I don't know if I'd go so far as to take it regularly though. I never would have considered it as a tool to reduce sugar intake, I can imagine it working for some, though. For reference: https://www.smallponybarrelworks.com/products/miraculous-primo https://www.smallponybarrelworks.com/products/miraculous-pri...
• lm28469 4y ago
  Eat what people ate a hundred years ago There is no magic but,most of what we eat in the west is shit
  • b3nji 4y ago
    This, all day long. Find a local Farmer, buy meat, vegetables, and dairy from them. Not only will you have great quality products straight from the source, but the farmer will get good profit too. Also, the food is so much better for you than the processed shit that you find in most supermarkets nowadays. Local food, and local people is so much better for all the things.
    • cies 4y ago
      Dairy? There's literally no evidence dairy in a modern diet is healthy, and much evidence of it being unhealthy.
      • orangepurple 4y ago
        Regular pasteurized milk is problematic due to the presence of nucleic acids that are biologically active in humans. Fermented food products like yogurt are fine. UHT milk is OK. Milk is not just food but most likely a genetic transfection system activating mTORC1 signaling for postnatal growth https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/23883112/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/23883112/
        • cies 4y ago
          Yes it contains (natural) growth hormones. And we (milk binging nations) wonder how we got so fat?!
          • orangepurple 4y ago
            No, you do not quite understand: it is much more serious than "growth hormones" like rBST. Milk drinkers are inserting bovine RNA into their cells (unless it is heavily fermented or UHT) > Milk is rich in miRNAs that appear to play important roles in the postnatal development of all mammals. https://nutritionandmetabolism.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12986-016-0101-2 https://nutritionandmetabolism.biomedcentral.com/articles/10... > There is compelling evidence that human and bovine milk exosomes play a crucial role for adequate metabolic and immunological programming of the newborn infant at the beginning of extrauterine life. Milk exosomes assist in executing an anabolic, growth-promoting and immunological program confined to the postnatal period in all mammals. However, epidemiological and translational evidence presented in this review indicates that continuous exposure of humans to exosomes of pasteurized milk may confer a substantial risk for the development of chronic diseases of civilization including obesity, type 2 diabetes mellitus, osteoporosis, common cancers (prostate, breast, liver, B-cells) as well as Parkinson's disease. Exosomes of pasteurized milk may represent new pathogens that should not reach the human food chain. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6317263/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6317263/
• mateuszbuda 4y ago
  This may be difficult as for half of the products scraped from Walmart, sugar is the main ingredient: https://scrapingfish.com/blog/scraping-walmart https://scrapingfish.com/blog/scraping-walmart
  • favaq 4y ago
    I wish I could understand that article, but it just doesn't have enough emojis :(
• kukkeliskuu 4y ago
  Stevia and xylitol.
  • heftig 4y ago
    PSA: Be careful with xylitol. It's lethally toxic to dogs and still 60% of the calories of regular sugar. I would prefer stevia for sweetening.
    • orangepurple 4y ago
      Furthermore, polyols are suspect after this erythritol paper came out recently. We can't have nice things. > multiple lines of evidence indicate that elevated erythritol levels can directly contribute to heightened platelet reactivity and thrombosis risk by enhancing platelet intracellular calcium release and aggregation in response to multiple agonists. Specifically, the use of a preclinical in vivo thrombosis model similarly indicates higher rates of clot formation and increased thrombosis potential following arterial injury when plasma erythritol levels are elevated. Our findings suggest the need for further safety studies examining the long-term effects of artificial sweeteners in general, and erythritol specifically, on risks for heart attack and stroke, particularly in patients at higher risk for CVD. https://www.nature.com/articles/s41591-023-02223-9.epdf?sharing_token=S6RhzXwq5vixDiTcaQrfbNRgN0jAjWel9jnR3ZoTv0MTnVt_Yzm2YDkmKtSZJOysYZlROr0ymfAdj9yPHH8bMVWpKjhPzPeMT8zTG9DpNMmnfRfOqNqOH8PhwI2X9sxfHMa-Tpawl-dyIWq9WdTUO2lqDJWIHLoFK3aG5AGi1YgYwh45eJcIr6Ru_oHiYM6tWV1e8xmMJVCD16hz5Vdb-g%3D%3D&tracking_referrer=www.cnn.com https://www.nature.com/articles/s41591-023-02223-9.epdf?shar...
• cies 4y ago
  Sugar is not bad. Use eating refined sugar is bad. Eat fruit, where sugar comes with fiber and vitamins/minerals and you will be fine (you are biologically a primate and they binge on fruit -- fruit and thereby sugar should thus be fine as our main source of calories). One note to add: primates do not eat fatty foods and humans do. In the presence of fat, we cannot handle sugar (and thus fruit) very well and may lead to type2.
  • amanaplanacanal 4y ago
    This sounds right, but probably isn’t. Humans moved from an all fruit diet probably a million years ago. It seems clear that adding high quality protein to our diet is what allowed us to grow our larger brains. Which is not to say that eating fruit is bad for you.
  • hawk_ 4y ago
    The fruits we eat are nothing like what our non human primate ancestors ate. Fruits have become significantly sweeter within my lifetime. What goes for fruit now is artificially selecred fruit candy.
    • 462436347 4y ago
      I'd love to see what your body looks like vs. the average fruitarian.
    • cies 4y ago
      Did you taste wild figs and (wild) papaya? Stuff's hella sweat. Sure we've cultivated sweet fruits that work in colder climates (apples and pears come to mind).
• orangepurple 4y ago
  > The question is, what is the least worst option? Normal sugar in moderation with large time periods between calories.
• lr4444lr 4y ago
  Sugar is bad in large quantities. I've concluded personally that it's still probably the best option - a teaspoon here and there, even daily, probably won't do much if it's near or in a meal. You know what you're getting: simple sugars have been part of the human diet for milennia, and we understand their metabolism reasonably well. People who use the alternatives are making a much riskier bet on the null hypothesis of future research.
  • bartvk 4y ago
    Exactly, the summary states "these findings suggest that a high intake of sucralose can dampen T cell-mediated responses". They fed mice the equivalent of the maximum advised dose for humans, 250 mg per kg body weight. So don't do that.
    • deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
  • sfjailbird 4y ago
    > simple sugars have been part of the human diet for milennia The stuff you put in your tea is super concentrated compared to the natural form, though. It takes like 50 kilos of raw sugar cane to make a kilo of table sugar, using an intensive industrial process.
  • joseph_grobbles 4y ago
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• pmoleri 4y ago
  Learn to value the taste of not excessively sweet food and drinks. It makes me crazy that every drink and food needs to be sweetened even when their natural flavor is very good or even better (once you acquire the taste). Coffee, fruits juice, cookies and so on, most people consume super sweet versions of those.
• elif 4y ago
  My philosophy has been "if you eat something for 4 months, you will like it" It was something I discovered by doing thruhikes, eating the most protein and calorie dense light foods on the shelf of whatever tiny town I hitchhiked into and drinking fresh spring water every day. Now soda tastes terrible to me compared to ice cold spring water with balanced minerals and I can appreciate the texture and earthy flavor of unflavored and unsalted lentils.