4 ms·

That's nonsense. Even if the system does not explicitly create something called a "record" by the developers of the app, the conversation is in a written form a

That's nonsense. Even if the system does not explicitly create something called a "record" by the developers of the app, the conversation is in a written form and stored somewhere (the server's RAM, or whatever). That's a record, however brief it is. If you destroy it, you've just destroyed a record. It's as simple as that.

teraflop 4y ago
I wonder: if a meeting is held over Zoom (or whatever), and one participant turns on automatic captioning, does the resulting text that exists in their computer's memory constitute a "written record" that legally must be preserved?
- kevinventullo 4y ago
  For that matter, why not the video itself?
- cryptonector 4y ago
  Yes, automatic captioning is a problem. As long as the law deals with written records specially compared to voice calls, even automatic captioning is "written records". I've seen companies disable automatic captioning for this reason.
RHSeeger 4y ago
How is that different from a VOIP call? The communication of the call is transformed into digital data. Are all VOIP calls considered recorded, and the fact that you didn't actually use the "save the recording" feature means that you broke law (if you're under a order not to destroy recordings)?
- justeleblanc 4y ago
  The order is about written records.
  - RHSeeger 4y ago
    And the argument seems to be that, if you have a series of 1s and 0s on disk or in memory at some point (because the information was transferred from one computer to another), then it counts as a written record. I'm trying to understand exactly what the difference is. Not in an "I'm trying to pedantic my way around the rule", but in a "these two things are the same; data representing communication between two or more people" way.
    - justeleblanc 4y ago
      > then it counts as a written record Nope. Just like a drawing made by depositing graphite on paper isn't drawing, even though writing letters by depositing graphite on paper is. > Not in an "I'm trying to pedantic my way around the rule", but in a "these two things are the same; data representing communication between two or more people" way. I don't see the difference.
seanmcdirmid 4y ago
Like phone calls, UDP packets carrying voice and video, those are all records also. A chat message packet seems to somehow be more special than a video or audio frame. That’s a bit weird to me. Basically, you are saying that you can’t have a private conversation under a retention order unless computers aren’t involved.
- justeleblanc 4y ago
  The order is about written records.

teraflop 4y ago

I wonder: if a meeting is held over Zoom (or whatever), and one participant turns on automatic captioning, does the resulting text that exists in their computer's memory constitute a "written record" that legally must be preserved?

kevinventullo 4y ago
For that matter, why not the video itself?
cryptonector 4y ago
Yes, automatic captioning is a problem. As long as the law deals with written records specially compared to voice calls, even automatic captioning is "written records". I've seen companies disable automatic captioning for this reason.

RHSeeger 4y ago

How is that different from a VOIP call? The communication of the call is transformed into digital data. Are all VOIP calls considered recorded, and the fact that you didn't actually use the "save the recording" feature means that you broke law (if you're under a order not to destroy recordings)?

justeleblanc 4y ago
The order is about written records.
- RHSeeger 4y ago
  And the argument seems to be that, if you have a series of 1s and 0s on disk or in memory at some point (because the information was transferred from one computer to another), then it counts as a written record. I'm trying to understand exactly what the difference is. Not in an "I'm trying to pedantic my way around the rule", but in a "these two things are the same; data representing communication between two or more people" way.
  - justeleblanc 4y ago
    > then it counts as a written record Nope. Just like a drawing made by depositing graphite on paper isn't drawing, even though writing letters by depositing graphite on paper is. > Not in an "I'm trying to pedantic my way around the rule", but in a "these two things are the same; data representing communication between two or more people" way. I don't see the difference.

seanmcdirmid 4y ago

Like phone calls, UDP packets carrying voice and video, those are all records also. A chat message packet seems to somehow be more special than a video or audio frame. That’s a bit weird to me. Basically, you are saying that you can’t have a private conversation under a retention order unless computers aren’t involved.

justeleblanc 4y ago
The order is about written records.