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A Whale-Oiled Machine
- acdanger 4y agoFun fact , sperm whale oil was used in car transmissions until the 1970s when it was outlawed by the Endangered Species Act. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sperm_oil#Applications https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sperm_oil#Applications
- tda 4y agoWow: > The loss of sperm oil had a profound impact in the automotive industry, where for example, transmission failures rose from under 1 million in 1972 to over 8 million by 1975.
- dsfyu404ed 4y agoYeah that stuck out to me too. Even if you assume that it's a raw number and is also reflecting increased adoption of automatic transmission it's kind of hard to blame a huge 8x multiple on solely the oil without something else to corroborate it (like sales figures for wet clutch and brake friction parts used in industrial applications which would be subject to the same increased wear if the oil was sub-par). Transmission fluid isn't special. It's basically just yet another variant of hydraulic fluid. The hydraulic parts of a transmission pretty much never have problems relative to the frequency with which the friction parts simply wear out. So other oil running clutches so see the same increase in failure rate over that time. Assuming the number itself is accurate OEMs producing designs with additional gears and lockup converters with the bare minimum of refinement (ship now fix later type engineering) in response to the fuel crisis probably deserves some blame.
- permo-w 4y agothis is fairly typical behaviour. when a product is outlawed, there’s nearly always an adaptation phase for example, solder from the few years after the British ban on production use of the leaded stuff is often very poor, but—contrary to what vested interests would have you believe—humans adapt. demand creates solutions
- hotpotamus 4y agoI remember a datacenter at an old job had a run in with "tin whiskers" forming off power supplies and eventually causing shorts that I believe was related to the solder issue.
- gwbas1c 4y agoSpermaceti (whale oil) based lubricants handled much higher temperatures than petroleum based lubricants. That was why automatic transmissions used spermaceti instead of petroleum based lubricants. That's also why the shift away from spermaceti impacted reliability: automatic transmissions in the 1970s needed lubricants that handled higher temperatures. Fun fact: Spermaceti is actually a wax, not an oil.
- dsfyu404ed 4y agoThe magnitude of the claim is contradicted by the lack of circumstantial evidence. If the difference was that stark aren't there old timers talking about how the old whale oil stuff was so good and why don't people find gallons of it saved here and there the same way you find lead paint or R12 refrigerant? Why isn't there some body of tribal knowledge saying that transmissions sucked in the 70s like we have for engines? I don't doubt for a minute that the government would ham-fistedly ban something without a viable alternative and that the textbook engineer types would crunch numbers on the replacement and conclude that "it'll be fine with no changes to our hardware, run it" leading to a higher failure rate, but 8x failure (or even 5x failure rate, to account for increased number of automatic transmissions out there) rate? That's absurd. I'd love to read the source for the claim but it's a paper version of a trade publication...
- giraffe_lady 4y ago> If the difference was that stark aren't there old timers talking about how the old whale oil stuff was so good When I was wrenching on cars in the 80s there absolutely were! We're talking about 50 years ago so you might need to find some older old timers but this was totally a thing.
- dsfyu404ed 4y agoDue to my hobby I hang out with mechanically inclined men aged ~30-70. I have heard them praise all manner of things from years past. If there's one thing they agree has pretty much constantly gotten better with no regressions along the way it's automotive lubricants, at least up until the point where they took the zinc out of motor oil. Now, I suspect there definitely are some regressions, but they're definitely small enough to get lost.
- int_19h 4y agoThere seems to have been a similar issue with gun lubricants - sperm oil was used for that, as well, and for similar reasons, so when transition happened, it affected reliability: https://www.cherrybalmz.com/history-sperm-whale-oil https://www.cherrybalmz.com/history-sperm-whale-oil
- ROTMetro 4y agoI still have a bottle of 'New Old Stock' GM whale oil for the rear differential in my old GTO. GM positraction in those old muscle cars relied on the stuff.
- gwbas1c 4y agoEven more fun fact: Yes wrote the song "Don't Kill the Whale:" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8NO8h_uTkdU&pp=ygUYeWVzIGdvdHRhIHNhdmUgdGhlIHdoYWxl https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8NO8h_uTkdU&pp=ygUYeWVzIGdvd... They also were known to travel in separate private limousines in LA, which probably had whale oil transmissions. I always think about them traveling to a vegetarian restaurant in LA in separate limos when I listen to that song.
- pbj1968 4y agoNye Lubricants for anyone else wondering.
- permo-w 4y agothe article began by referring to the man himself, then started talking about the company, all the way referring to both as “Nye”. I’m not sure why they didn’t give the full company name at least once. perhaps to avoid the impression of a puff piece?
- notatoad 4y agoThe article appears to be written by taking key sentences out of the podcast transcript, and then doing a very light edit only to vaguely connect the sentences together. In the actual podcast they mention the company by name multiple times. I think including the company name just got missed in the edit
- nonethewiser 4y agoWell, it’s more sustainable than fossil fuels.
- mauvehaus 4y agoIf you ever find yourself in New Bedford, I cannot recommend the whaling museum highly enough. Fun fact: Clifford Ashley of Ashley's Book of Knots (ABOK) was also a painter. The museum has some of his work in their collection. Also: if you have any interest in whaling and haven't read Moby Dick, you really ought to. People will complain that it's principally a book about whaling with a bit of story mixed in. That's true, but it turns out whaling is fascinating. Imagine a world without whales. If JK Rowling had written a book about people sailing to the far side of the world to hunt sea creatures whose heads are full of substance that looks suspiciously like semen, nobody would have published it because it would be too unrealistic.
- psychphysic 4y agoI also enjoyed the recent whaling documentary that takes up the middle hour of Avatar 2. I'd recommend cutting that middle out if you just want to watch Avatar2. And then at a later date watch that hour as a in-world whaling doc.
- MezzoDelCammin 4y agoBBC presents: Avatar 2 Narrated by: David Attenborough
- theshrike79 4y agoYou can tell how much James Cameron cares about the sea just by the fact how much time he spent on it for Avatar 2. The analogies are NOT subtle, but the CGI is so good we don't care.
- mstudio 4y agoGreat tip. I hadn't heard of that museum and will have to check it out. If anyone else is interested in whaling, particularly Nantucket's past sperm whale industry, "In the Heart of the Sea: The Tragedy of the Whaleship Essex" is a great read.
- johnwalkr 4y ago
- Damogran6 4y agoIn the 90's we'd add a GM lubrication additive to transmissions...it instantaneously improved shift effort and we joked about it being whale jizz...turns out it isn't...and is. https://www.loandiscount.store/product/Gm-1050081-1965-75-Nos-Posi-Lubricant-Qnty-2-Qts-All-General-Motors-Rear-Hypoid_xpz8d97d675a5e6.html https://www.loandiscount.store/product/Gm-1050081-1965-75-No... DESCRIPTION GM# 1050081 1965-75 NOS POSI LUBRICANT QNTY 2 QTS ALL GENERAL MOTORS REAR HYPOID GEAR POSI LUBE EARLY SUPERIOR MIX WITH WHALE SPERM CHANGED TO 1052271 1965 1966 1967 1968 1969 1970 1971 1972 1973 1974 1975
- pfdietz 4y agoI wonder if any distant relation to Bill Nye the Science Guy. EDIT: I wasn't going to listen to a 40 minute podcast to hear that, so thanks.
- isaacdl 4y agoYep - they actually talk to him in the episode.
- madcaptenor 4y agoFrom Nye Lubricants' web page (https://www.nyelubricants.com/the-science-guy-and-nye-1 https://www.nyelubricants.com/the-science-guy-and-nye-1): "Bill Nye [the science guy] is a direct descendant of our founder’s brother, Captain Nye."
- flohofwoe 4y agoWhen I played Dishonored (very recommended if you like "a thinking man's FPS") I thought the whole Victorian "whale oil economy" of the game world was very interesting but ultimately fiction, but somehow the game triggered a desire to learn more about the actual history of whale oil usage and I was surprised that the basic idea of the game's economy based on whale oil wasn't that far from the truth.
- DubiousPusher 4y agoPenguins and seals became an important alternative as whale populations waned at the end of the 19th century. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Hatch https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Hatch
- dsalzman 4y agoThere is a very interesting HBS case on whaling [0]. It explains how the high risk and high return nature of whaling drove the development of concepts like syndication and limited liability corps that we take for granted today. Pretty interesting the tangible connections of modern startups and VC to hunting for whales. [0] - https://www.hbs.edu/faculty/Pages/item.aspx?num=43322 https://www.hbs.edu/faculty/Pages/item.aspx?num=43322
- Epa095 4y agoHot take: we should eat more whale! The common mink whale is least-concern, and can be harvested more without danger to the species. Morally I see no difference between eating mink whale and a hunted moose, definitely better than factory farmed animals (including farmed fish) with all the suffering they endure before beeing eaten. (But leave the endangered species alone).
- gmarx 4y agoFor a person of GenX this is a fascinating thread, most notably for the lack of moral posturing. We were raised to consider whaling an unspeakable evil. To the current generation it looks like an engineering and history discussion. I wonder if we could get away with wearing fur again? Has enough time passed that activists have forgotten they are supposed to hurl blood at anyone wearing a fur coat?
- SnoJohn 4y agoTom Nicholas, an HBS professor, wrote a book about the history of VC (1) which spends the first chapter of the book talking about the whaling industry and how it created the venture structure we know today. Many whaling voyages failed to find whales, and some outright sank or disappeared, but some came home full of whale oil. He found the parallels in the data striking. It is a great book and a good companion to Mallaby's Power Law. Fun fact: his source for whaling data was a book by Alexander Starbuck. 1. https://www.goodreads.com/en/book/show/42449471 https://www.goodreads.com/en/book/show/42449471
- tsejerome97 4y agoso dishonored is true
- raffraffraff 4y agoLol, the headline reminds me of "whale oil beef hooked". Can't remember where I saw it, maybe early reddit days or b3ta, but it's a long time ago and my brain held onto it for no reason. (It's supposed to be a way to speak with an Irish accent)
- hoseja 4y ago>Petroleum products were terrible for the climate... What are you talking about. It's not being burned. Certainly better than genociding the oceans. The article overall is very ambivalent to the anglo horror that was industrial whaling.
- zeristor 4y agoFifty years of tribology http://www.eng.cam.ac.uk/news/fifty-years-tribology http://www.eng.cam.ac.uk/news/fifty-years-tribology
- brabel 4y agoWow, technology is really amazing: "Now, in modern drives, the heads fly at less than 10 nm, a feat that demands not only precise modelling of the air film and head dynamics but also the production of disk surfaces of extraordinary flatness, protected by a 15 nm coating of hard carbon and a lubricant layer only one nm (about 10 atoms) thick."