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> to make college seem like a crisis or a waste of money, when coding camps are worse You really have no comparative data here. College is a life-crushing mis

> to make college seem like a crisis or a waste of money, when coding camps are worse You really have no comparative data here. College is a life-crushing mistake for millions of people. I'm not trying to defend or condemn BloomTech (I really don't know if the allegations are true) but it's 100% true that two competing things can both be extremely bad.

paulpauper 4y ago
It can also be 100% true that one competing thing can be worse than the other even if they are both bad Coding camps charge $10k of more, some require a certain percentage of income, and you don't even get a credential. How many companies are looking for coding camp graduates, compared to companies that are looking for college grads? College is a life-crushing mistake for millions of people. It is a mistake if you do not graduate, but the data shows grads earn way more and have half the unemployment rate of high school grads.
- toast0 4y ago
  How much is 6 months of undergrad going for these days? $10k doesn't sound that expensive, if the placement rate was true.
bastawhiz 4y ago
I don't think the person you're replying to thinks that college is a fantastic choice, just that coding bootcamps are often materially and objectively worse for most participants. If nothing else, colleges give you a diploma at the end, which is at least good for bypassing a minimum requirement at many companies. That's not to say that both are not bad, just that one preys on people distrustful (or regretful) of the other.
- ghufran_syed 4y ago
  you don’t get a diploma if you don’t graduate… but you still have to pay back any loans
  - bastawhiz 4y ago
    Sure. But the cost is, at least, well known up front. Again, it's not good. On the other hand, you've got boot camps. Nobody chooses a boot camp over college, it's folks who realized they need to change direction. The target market is people who are often desperate, who don't realize they're going to get an underwhelming education, and who often don't get a job to pay for the boot camp afterward.

paulpauper 4y ago

It can also be 100% true that one competing thing can be worse than the other even if they are both bad Coding camps charge $10k of more, some require a certain percentage of income, and you don't even get a credential. How many companies are looking for coding camp graduates, compared to companies that are looking for college grads? College is a life-crushing mistake for millions of people. It is a mistake if you do not graduate, but the data shows grads earn way more and have half the unemployment rate of high school grads.

toast0 4y ago
How much is 6 months of undergrad going for these days? $10k doesn't sound that expensive, if the placement rate was true.

bastawhiz 4y ago

I don't think the person you're replying to thinks that college is a fantastic choice, just that coding bootcamps are often materially and objectively worse for most participants. If nothing else, colleges give you a diploma at the end, which is at least good for bypassing a minimum requirement at many companies. That's not to say that both are not bad, just that one preys on people distrustful (or regretful) of the other.

ghufran_syed 4y ago
you don’t get a diploma if you don’t graduate… but you still have to pay back any loans
- bastawhiz 4y ago
  Sure. But the cost is, at least, well known up front. Again, it's not good. On the other hand, you've got boot camps. Nobody chooses a boot camp over college, it's folks who realized they need to change direction. The target market is people who are often desperate, who don't realize they're going to get an underwhelming education, and who often don't get a job to pay for the boot camp afterward.