8 ms·

I'm a huge fan of spaced repetition and Anki. I strongly believe that most people's professional lives would be improved by using it. There is a huge amount of

I'm a huge fan of spaced repetition and Anki. I strongly believe that most people's professional lives would be improved by using it. There is a huge amount of information that falls into the zone of it's needed often enough that not knowing it is a pain, but it's not needed often enough that you would "naturally" remember it. I've yet to find anything else that only takes 10 to 20 minutes a day that has a higher ROI. The amount of "compounding interest" it gives over time is incredible. Learning to write good cards is skill that takes time and practice. The article from Andy Matuschak [0] is a great guide to learn how to write good cards. [0] https://andymatuschak.org/prompts/ https://andymatuschak.org/prompts/

yt-sdb 4y ago
Do you have a TLDR for that article? It's pretty long and wordy.
- submeta 4y ago
  The article discusses how to create effective prompts that aid in long-term learning using spaced repetition. Matuschak suggests that good prompts should be specific, clear, and concise, and should be designed to encourage active recall rather than passive recognition. He also emphasizes the importance of interleaving, which involves mixing up different types of problems or questions to enhance retention and facilitate transfer of knowledge. Additionally, he suggests that prompts should be personalized and contextualized to increase engagement and motivation.
  - jstummbillig 4y ago
    Okay, so was this written by chatgpt
- zvmaz 4y ago
  I have found out that I was bad at card making when reviewing the first cards I made after a lapse of time of not using Anki. My then self got frustrated and irritated by how vague and non-specific the cards I made myself were. I certainly learned something about my memory and cognition. The article is long, but it has some insights that resonated with me. I think the quality of the cards one makes is as important, if not more so, than spaced repetition.
  - maphew 4y ago
    I have made a few runs at adopting spaced repetition learning via Anki into my life. The failure point each time so far has been making cards that are worth anything.
- andrem 4y ago
  This is from Kagi's summarizer: Anki is a powerful tool for improving long-term memory. Anki is best used in service to a creative project. It is important to ask good questions when using Anki. Anki is most useful for learning new fields. Anki can be used to develop virtuoso skills. It is important to avoid orphan questions and yes/no patterns when using Anki. Memory is complicated and we should be careful before putting too much faith in any given model. Distributed practice is important for maximizing retention. Anki can be used to remember non-verbal experiences. Anki can be used to memorize APIs and code.
- textninja 4y ago
  I asked ChatGPT to summarize the article as Anki cards: What memory type is virtually limitless? Long-term memory What's the bottleneck between working and long-term memory? Speed of transferring memories What is a "schema" in long-term memory? A pattern of knowledge for understanding What happens when long-term memories return to working memory? Memory evolves, updates schema What is Anki commonly used for? Rote learning and memorization Time daily to maintain 10,000 Anki cards? 15-20 minutes Michael Nielsen's rules for Anki-fying? Worth 10 mins future time, striking facts Can Anki be used for complex concepts? Yes, by breaking down concepts and building knowledge
  - hackernewds 4y ago
    > summarize the article as Anki cards that's a very clever prompt mechanism you used there
coffeebeqn 4y ago
Why is it useful? My job at least isn’t bottlenecked by me not memorizing enough things. Or maybe it is! But I’m not convinced
- iFreilicht 4y ago
  I don't personally use this method, but it seems to me like this would help with all the cases where you search for something on stackoverflow, use the solution, and 3+ months later you encounter the exact same issue. You remember that you already had this issue, and you remember that you searched on SO and found a solution, but you don't remember what it was. If you wrote a flash-card and learned it, you'd have that knowledge available immediately. Or, let's say you're learning a new language/framework that you want to use professionally, but don't use frequently yet. So you start a project in that language/framework, learn some of the things that make it different, and every time something surprised you or you had to search for a solution, you write a flashcard. Then you can learn these aspects separately from having to work on a project, and once you do have a use for it, you have the knowledge available. I think this could be less likely if you're very specialized, but if you're a consultant or freelancer and have to work with lots of different technologies, locking down the differences and unique aspects for each could save a lot of time.
  - achileas 4y ago
    There are (arguably) better ways to handle this, though. When you get enough cards, you won't conceivably review them all within a reasonable enough timespan to encounter concepts often enough to really remember. The use case you mention is more suited to a personal knowledgebase with good search capabilities and/or networking, like Obsidian, Tana, Roam, org-mode, whatever. That way you have the knowledge somewhere, you can search it (of course, this can be lossy - like writing good cards this requires writing good notes), and you can build up all the context you need. I think the article misses the mark on the dichotomy here - it's not search vs. flash cards, it's owning your knowledge vs. relying on external, potentially ephemeral sources. Flash cards and spaced repetition are great for certain use cases (Anki is incredibly popular among language learners for a reason), but not for all of them.
- 4y ago
watwut 4y ago
It seems to me that pretty much anything has better ROI then 10-20 minutes of pure rote memorization a day. Plus, keeping in 10-20 minutes a day requires separate skill on itself. Anki has a way of taking over and expanding the time it requires.
- MichaelNolan 4y ago
  > of pure rote memorization I wouldn't describe my use of Anki as "rote memorization". Though certainly some people use it that way. There is a big difference between blindly putting raw and unfamiliar facts into an SRS, and using an SRS to remember things you have learned and understand. It's the second case that pays large dividends over time.
  - dymk 4y ago
    Anki certainly is rote memorization. SRS is just the most efficient way to successfully do it.
  - naniwaduni 4y ago
    There is uh, a reason the program's name is almost literally "blind memorization". The connotations are not quite as negative as the phrasing sounds in English, buut the meaning is not a coincidence.
- yCombLinks 4y ago
  Strong disagree. The pivot completely away from rote memorization in public schools is a mistake. Being able to immediately conjure math facts for example without having to use higher level concentration makes the next level of thought easier to access. Rote memorization is currently undervalued.
  - hyperbovine 4y ago
    Oh man I could not disagree more. “Math facts” don’t require any sort of conjuring, in fact cease to seem mystical at all, once you have a deep understanding of the material. Take your favorite math textbook—do you seriously think the author wrote all that down by rote memorization? Of course not: it came naturally as a byproduct of study. Memorization for the sake of memorizing is the worst possible way to learn mathematics.
irjustin 4y ago
This is where I've found ChatGPT sooooo effective in searching. I ask it a question much more naturally vs google - meaning less cognitive load and the answer it spits back is usually a result of multiple sources distilled down to the smallest amount of information - basically all the "fluff" removed. This means less time spent reading, filtering, finding the answer. It's been wrong a number of times which costs me 5-30 minutes at a time, but I've severely benefited in time overall by orders of magnitude.
balaji1 4y ago
The other high ROI activity is writing/re-writing and writing these prompts yourself will make it more effective.
glenngillen 4y ago
Could you share some examples of the type of stuff you’ve added to this system that’s had that kind of professional pay off? I’m familiar with the approach, but I suspect part of the reason I’ve not been able to maintain a long term habit is I’ve always used it for things like learning a language. Which is great, but doesn’t have the kind of process re-enforcing payoff given I rarely get to apply it. And I’m drawn a blank on the kind of professional stuff I’d put in here.
- travisjungroth 4y ago
  Here's an example: statistical methods. I'm a software engineer and was going to start helping with analysis tooling. Having characteristics and example use cases for many statistical methods helped me work faster and make better choices than needing to look things up. Generalized, cases where you can choose from one of a few options/technique and this choice is an expression of your professional opinion are good. What you memorize are the attributes of the options that you tend to make the choices on. It's hard to get across (and impossible if people don't want to believe it) the difference in speed/quality/accuracy that comes from having 3 attributes of 10 options at instant recall versus a few that come to mind right away and then more if you remember to try.
- karatinversion 4y ago
  Some examples from my life: - Where are the log files for $service stored? - What do the values of $one_letter_code in this message format/log line mean? - What do I grep for to diagnose $problem? More generally, when I find that I have memorised how to look something up (search slack for $foo to find the instructions, type $bar in the browser address bar to bring up the wiki page with the host name I need), I try to just memorise the fact directly, to reduce friction.
SkyPuncher 4y ago
I have the exact opposite opinion. My wife is a doctor. Anki was insanely popular in med school. It was certainly helpful for passing exams, but it's all stuff that can be easily looked up. It's all simple, basic facts. It's far better to learn the theory, then fill in the details with easy reference.
- emodendroket 4y ago
  In theory. But in practice having a lot of facts memorized not only saves you from having to look things up but actually makes you get more out of the things you do look up! See: https://www.aft.org/sites/default/files/LookItUpSpring2000.pdf https://www.aft.org/sites/default/files/LookItUpSpring2000.p... Besides that, the original task Anki was designed for was language learning, and you can't have much of a conversation if every sentence requires multiple dictionary lookups.
- leobg 4y ago
  Ha! I used it in law school. Actually wrote my “cards” down on a palm pilot during classes using the funny stylus it had. Professor later told me he had wondered what I was doing with this odd device. Until it dawned on him that I was taking notes! Other people paid hundreds for exam prep courses. For me, SuperMemo (the “app” as it was called back then, before “apps” were a thing) was all I needed.
sph 4y ago
I am completely self taught (started programming at 14 and dropped out of high school) yet I have never user Anki and spaced repetition once. I am curious to know how it can make my life better, and I'm not being sarcastic, but yours is a tall claim and I am very used to learn everything I do by myself. What can Anki do for me in 10-20 minutes a day? Finding or preparing good flash cards is a lot of effort for someone used to ADHD-fueled information skimming to learn something breadth-first.

yt-sdb 4y ago

Do you have a TLDR for that article? It's pretty long and wordy.

submeta 4y ago
The article discusses how to create effective prompts that aid in long-term learning using spaced repetition. Matuschak suggests that good prompts should be specific, clear, and concise, and should be designed to encourage active recall rather than passive recognition. He also emphasizes the importance of interleaving, which involves mixing up different types of problems or questions to enhance retention and facilitate transfer of knowledge. Additionally, he suggests that prompts should be personalized and contextualized to increase engagement and motivation.
- jstummbillig 4y ago
  Okay, so was this written by chatgpt
zvmaz 4y ago
I have found out that I was bad at card making when reviewing the first cards I made after a lapse of time of not using Anki. My then self got frustrated and irritated by how vague and non-specific the cards I made myself were. I certainly learned something about my memory and cognition. The article is long, but it has some insights that resonated with me. I think the quality of the cards one makes is as important, if not more so, than spaced repetition.
- maphew 4y ago
  I have made a few runs at adopting spaced repetition learning via Anki into my life. The failure point each time so far has been making cards that are worth anything.
andrem 4y ago
This is from Kagi's summarizer: Anki is a powerful tool for improving long-term memory. Anki is best used in service to a creative project. It is important to ask good questions when using Anki. Anki is most useful for learning new fields. Anki can be used to develop virtuoso skills. It is important to avoid orphan questions and yes/no patterns when using Anki. Memory is complicated and we should be careful before putting too much faith in any given model. Distributed practice is important for maximizing retention. Anki can be used to remember non-verbal experiences. Anki can be used to memorize APIs and code.
textninja 4y ago
I asked ChatGPT to summarize the article as Anki cards: What memory type is virtually limitless? Long-term memory What's the bottleneck between working and long-term memory? Speed of transferring memories What is a "schema" in long-term memory? A pattern of knowledge for understanding What happens when long-term memories return to working memory? Memory evolves, updates schema What is Anki commonly used for? Rote learning and memorization Time daily to maintain 10,000 Anki cards? 15-20 minutes Michael Nielsen's rules for Anki-fying? Worth 10 mins future time, striking facts Can Anki be used for complex concepts? Yes, by breaking down concepts and building knowledge
- hackernewds 4y ago
  > summarize the article as Anki cards that's a very clever prompt mechanism you used there

coffeebeqn 4y ago

Why is it useful? My job at least isn’t bottlenecked by me not memorizing enough things. Or maybe it is! But I’m not convinced

iFreilicht 4y ago
I don't personally use this method, but it seems to me like this would help with all the cases where you search for something on stackoverflow, use the solution, and 3+ months later you encounter the exact same issue. You remember that you already had this issue, and you remember that you searched on SO and found a solution, but you don't remember what it was. If you wrote a flash-card and learned it, you'd have that knowledge available immediately. Or, let's say you're learning a new language/framework that you want to use professionally, but don't use frequently yet. So you start a project in that language/framework, learn some of the things that make it different, and every time something surprised you or you had to search for a solution, you write a flashcard. Then you can learn these aspects separately from having to work on a project, and once you do have a use for it, you have the knowledge available. I think this could be less likely if you're very specialized, but if you're a consultant or freelancer and have to work with lots of different technologies, locking down the differences and unique aspects for each could save a lot of time.
- achileas 4y ago
  There are (arguably) better ways to handle this, though. When you get enough cards, you won't conceivably review them all within a reasonable enough timespan to encounter concepts often enough to really remember. The use case you mention is more suited to a personal knowledgebase with good search capabilities and/or networking, like Obsidian, Tana, Roam, org-mode, whatever. That way you have the knowledge somewhere, you can search it (of course, this can be lossy - like writing good cards this requires writing good notes), and you can build up all the context you need. I think the article misses the mark on the dichotomy here - it's not search vs. flash cards, it's owning your knowledge vs. relying on external, potentially ephemeral sources. Flash cards and spaced repetition are great for certain use cases (Anki is incredibly popular among language learners for a reason), but not for all of them.
4y ago

watwut 4y ago

It seems to me that pretty much anything has better ROI then 10-20 minutes of pure rote memorization a day. Plus, keeping in 10-20 minutes a day requires separate skill on itself. Anki has a way of taking over and expanding the time it requires.

MichaelNolan 4y ago
> of pure rote memorization I wouldn't describe my use of Anki as "rote memorization". Though certainly some people use it that way. There is a big difference between blindly putting raw and unfamiliar facts into an SRS, and using an SRS to remember things you have learned and understand. It's the second case that pays large dividends over time.
- dymk 4y ago
  Anki certainly is rote memorization. SRS is just the most efficient way to successfully do it.
- naniwaduni 4y ago
  There is uh, a reason the program's name is almost literally "blind memorization". The connotations are not quite as negative as the phrasing sounds in English, buut the meaning is not a coincidence.
yCombLinks 4y ago
Strong disagree. The pivot completely away from rote memorization in public schools is a mistake. Being able to immediately conjure math facts for example without having to use higher level concentration makes the next level of thought easier to access. Rote memorization is currently undervalued.
- hyperbovine 4y ago
  Oh man I could not disagree more. “Math facts” don’t require any sort of conjuring, in fact cease to seem mystical at all, once you have a deep understanding of the material. Take your favorite math textbook—do you seriously think the author wrote all that down by rote memorization? Of course not: it came naturally as a byproduct of study. Memorization for the sake of memorizing is the worst possible way to learn mathematics.

irjustin 4y ago

This is where I've found ChatGPT sooooo effective in searching. I ask it a question much more naturally vs google - meaning less cognitive load and the answer it spits back is usually a result of multiple sources distilled down to the smallest amount of information - basically all the "fluff" removed. This means less time spent reading, filtering, finding the answer. It's been wrong a number of times which costs me 5-30 minutes at a time, but I've severely benefited in time overall by orders of magnitude.

balaji1 4y ago

The other high ROI activity is writing/re-writing and writing these prompts yourself will make it more effective.

glenngillen 4y ago

Could you share some examples of the type of stuff you’ve added to this system that’s had that kind of professional pay off? I’m familiar with the approach, but I suspect part of the reason I’ve not been able to maintain a long term habit is I’ve always used it for things like learning a language. Which is great, but doesn’t have the kind of process re-enforcing payoff given I rarely get to apply it. And I’m drawn a blank on the kind of professional stuff I’d put in here.

travisjungroth 4y ago
Here's an example: statistical methods. I'm a software engineer and was going to start helping with analysis tooling. Having characteristics and example use cases for many statistical methods helped me work faster and make better choices than needing to look things up. Generalized, cases where you can choose from one of a few options/technique and this choice is an expression of your professional opinion are good. What you memorize are the attributes of the options that you tend to make the choices on. It's hard to get across (and impossible if people don't want to believe it) the difference in speed/quality/accuracy that comes from having 3 attributes of 10 options at instant recall versus a few that come to mind right away and then more if you remember to try.
karatinversion 4y ago
Some examples from my life: - Where are the log files for $service stored? - What do the values of $one_letter_code in this message format/log line mean? - What do I grep for to diagnose $problem? More generally, when I find that I have memorised how to look something up (search slack for $foo to find the instructions, type $bar in the browser address bar to bring up the wiki page with the host name I need), I try to just memorise the fact directly, to reduce friction.

SkyPuncher 4y ago

I have the exact opposite opinion. My wife is a doctor. Anki was insanely popular in med school. It was certainly helpful for passing exams, but it's all stuff that can be easily looked up. It's all simple, basic facts. It's far better to learn the theory, then fill in the details with easy reference.

emodendroket 4y ago
In theory. But in practice having a lot of facts memorized not only saves you from having to look things up but actually makes you get more out of the things you do look up! See: https://www.aft.org/sites/default/files/LookItUpSpring2000.pdf https://www.aft.org/sites/default/files/LookItUpSpring2000.p... Besides that, the original task Anki was designed for was language learning, and you can't have much of a conversation if every sentence requires multiple dictionary lookups.
leobg 4y ago
Ha! I used it in law school. Actually wrote my “cards” down on a palm pilot during classes using the funny stylus it had. Professor later told me he had wondered what I was doing with this odd device. Until it dawned on him that I was taking notes! Other people paid hundreds for exam prep courses. For me, SuperMemo (the “app” as it was called back then, before “apps” were a thing) was all I needed.

sph 4y ago

I am completely self taught (started programming at 14 and dropped out of high school) yet I have never user Anki and spaced repetition once. I am curious to know how it can make my life better, and I'm not being sarcastic, but yours is a tall claim and I am very used to learn everything I do by myself. What can Anki do for me in 10-20 minutes a day? Finding or preparing good flash cards is a lot of effort for someone used to ADHD-fueled information skimming to learn something breadth-first.