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As someone who racked up nearly $80K in debt going to art school, I think they're making the right choice (mostly). In some cases it really makes sense to go to

As someone who racked up nearly $80K in debt going to art school, I think they're making the right choice (mostly). In some cases it really makes sense to go to college, but it's a terrible model for many skills.

toomuchtodo 4y ago
With there being a huge shortage in trades and other roles where they'll provide an apprenticeship, versus credential inflation and jobs requiring a bachelor's just for entry level positions, it makes sense to go where you're valued as a worker and be catered to instead of having your originated student loans extracted from you for simply a chance at a white collar job. https://www.newsweek.com/forget-college-skilled-trades-are-future-us-economy-opinion-1715361 https://www.newsweek.com/forget-college-skilled-trades-are-f... https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/despite-rising-salaries-the-skilled-labor-shortage-is-getting-worse https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/despite-rising-salaries-th...
- throwaway6734 4y ago
  Many trades will be much more protected against AI gains as well
  - toomuchtodo 4y ago
    Indeed! LLMs ain't gonna be performing electrical, plumbing, earthwork, welding, or carpentry anytime soon. If anything, its going to flush out the bullshit jobs while the economy is in a position to reward those performing higher value work.
    - ldhough 4y ago
      I agree but according to the BLS employment numbers are as follows in the US: Electrician: 650k Plumber: 469k Earthwork: Don't see an exact match Welding: 428k Carpentry: 668k Software Devs, QA, & Testing: 1.62m Programmers: 152k Not sure how they differentiate between devs & programmers but even if we just take the 1.62m figure it is well over half the total employment in those trades. If software devs get 75-90% replaced (I don't think it'll be this bad and for my own sake as an early career dev I really hope not but I don't see it as impossible) I imagine most white collar jobs are coming with us. Will the trades pay as well when a ton of people are looking to reskill into something that still exists?
    - helsinki 4y ago
      This assumes there will be people that can afford to pay them for their work...
mnd999 4y ago
Did you have fun though? Because imho, that’s part of the point.
- AnimalMuppet 4y ago
  Maybe so, but then you have the un-fun of being $80K in debt and trying to pay it back on jobs you can get with an arts degree. Maybe there's more efficient ways of having fun.
- Minor49er 4y ago
  The point is to get an education that can be used to get into more valuable areas of employment. $80k is a lot to spend on fun when fun can be found for free
  - mnd999 4y ago
    You’re doing both, that’s the point. Too many folks on hacker news see everything in black and white.
    - Minor49er 4y ago
      I fear that you aren't understanding what college is about
- jvanderbot 4y ago
  There's more fun to be had with 80k than college.
  - kdmccormick 4y ago
    Like?
    - jvanderbot 4y ago
      Youre really asking for examples? - couple years off traveling the world all expenses paid - buying a small lake cabin near family and friends, or down payment on a very nice place. - 10 years of international, three-week vacations - retiring 10 years early because over 40 years that'll be almost 1.3 million. - you could get the college experience but for twice as long by not paying for classes - take less expensive classes, live at home, and work more, and end up with much less debt, then spend 80k on your first house down payment. Im not trying very hard, but I had way more fun after college than in it, it seems obvious that there might be better ways to have fun with 80k, that's all. Maybe I'm wrong.
zabzonk 4y ago
Not to be rude or unsypathetic, but did you think that spending $80K was going to turn you into an artist?
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- Ericson2314 4y ago
  Just because the person did not have a successful art career doesn't mean they aren't and artist and didn't become a better one.
  - zabzonk 4y ago
    of course, anyone can be an artist (or not). my point is that you don't have to spend $80K to potentially fail in becoming one. interesting to see that talent might beat out education is no longer an idea here
    - kdmccormick 4y ago
      Talent beating out education is OBVIOUSLY still an idea here, you're just asking disingenuous, leading questions. Is $80k on its own supposed to turn a non-artist into an artist? No, nobody is saying that. You need to be talented to get admitted in the first place. Would $80k lead to lessons, connections, and experiences that could make an artist's career more successful? Quite possibly. Or not. It's a risky investment: you pay a lot, and maybe it pays off, maybe you break even, maybe you end up behind. I'm not defending the >$80k price tag of art school. I'm saying that it's not irrational for a budding artist to see it as worth the gamble.
- micromacrofoot 4y ago
  college isn’t quite equivalent to trade school, it wasn’t really about getting a degree in a career field until it became so outrageously expensive that you needed to constantly consider how you’d pay it back

toomuchtodo 4y ago

With there being a huge shortage in trades and other roles where they'll provide an apprenticeship, versus credential inflation and jobs requiring a bachelor's just for entry level positions, it makes sense to go where you're valued as a worker and be catered to instead of having your originated student loans extracted from you for simply a chance at a white collar job. https://www.newsweek.com/forget-college-skilled-trades-are-future-us-economy-opinion-1715361 https://www.newsweek.com/forget-college-skilled-trades-are-f... https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/despite-rising-salaries-the-skilled-labor-shortage-is-getting-worse https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/despite-rising-salaries-th...

throwaway6734 4y ago
Many trades will be much more protected against AI gains as well
- toomuchtodo 4y ago
  Indeed! LLMs ain't gonna be performing electrical, plumbing, earthwork, welding, or carpentry anytime soon. If anything, its going to flush out the bullshit jobs while the economy is in a position to reward those performing higher value work.
  - ldhough 4y ago
    I agree but according to the BLS employment numbers are as follows in the US: Electrician: 650k Plumber: 469k Earthwork: Don't see an exact match Welding: 428k Carpentry: 668k Software Devs, QA, & Testing: 1.62m Programmers: 152k Not sure how they differentiate between devs & programmers but even if we just take the 1.62m figure it is well over half the total employment in those trades. If software devs get 75-90% replaced (I don't think it'll be this bad and for my own sake as an early career dev I really hope not but I don't see it as impossible) I imagine most white collar jobs are coming with us. Will the trades pay as well when a ton of people are looking to reskill into something that still exists?
  - helsinki 4y ago
    This assumes there will be people that can afford to pay them for their work...

mnd999 4y ago

Did you have fun though? Because imho, that’s part of the point.

AnimalMuppet 4y ago
Maybe so, but then you have the un-fun of being $80K in debt and trying to pay it back on jobs you can get with an arts degree. Maybe there's more efficient ways of having fun.
Minor49er 4y ago
The point is to get an education that can be used to get into more valuable areas of employment. $80k is a lot to spend on fun when fun can be found for free
- mnd999 4y ago
  You’re doing both, that’s the point. Too many folks on hacker news see everything in black and white.
  - Minor49er 4y ago
    I fear that you aren't understanding what college is about
jvanderbot 4y ago
There's more fun to be had with 80k than college.
- kdmccormick 4y ago
  Like?
  - jvanderbot 4y ago
    Youre really asking for examples? - couple years off traveling the world all expenses paid - buying a small lake cabin near family and friends, or down payment on a very nice place. - 10 years of international, three-week vacations - retiring 10 years early because over 40 years that'll be almost 1.3 million. - you could get the college experience but for twice as long by not paying for classes - take less expensive classes, live at home, and work more, and end up with much less debt, then spend 80k on your first house down payment. Im not trying very hard, but I had way more fun after college than in it, it seems obvious that there might be better ways to have fun with 80k, that's all. Maybe I'm wrong.

zabzonk 4y ago

Not to be rude or unsypathetic, but did you think that spending $80K was going to turn you into an artist?

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
Ericson2314 4y ago
Just because the person did not have a successful art career doesn't mean they aren't and artist and didn't become a better one.
- zabzonk 4y ago
  of course, anyone can be an artist (or not). my point is that you don't have to spend $80K to potentially fail in becoming one. interesting to see that talent might beat out education is no longer an idea here
  - kdmccormick 4y ago
    Talent beating out education is OBVIOUSLY still an idea here, you're just asking disingenuous, leading questions. Is $80k on its own supposed to turn a non-artist into an artist? No, nobody is saying that. You need to be talented to get admitted in the first place. Would $80k lead to lessons, connections, and experiences that could make an artist's career more successful? Quite possibly. Or not. It's a risky investment: you pay a lot, and maybe it pays off, maybe you break even, maybe you end up behind. I'm not defending the >$80k price tag of art school. I'm saying that it's not irrational for a budding artist to see it as worth the gamble.
micromacrofoot 4y ago
college isn’t quite equivalent to trade school, it wasn’t really about getting a degree in a career field until it became so outrageously expensive that you needed to constantly consider how you’d pay it back