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I would say KDE Plasma surpasses anything out there even closed proprietary alternatives. From time to time I have to use Windows and mac at work (to test on ot

I would say KDE Plasma surpasses anything out there even closed proprietary alternatives. From time to time I have to use Windows and mac at work (to test on other platforms than GNU/Linux) and they are much worse when it comes to desktop use, especially macos is quite terrible. Not even considering all the trends of surveillance and ads they try to add into those two now and constant dumbing down of the interface.

still_grokking 4y ago
I feel the same. What I'm constantly wondering is why macOS is so popular, especially with tech people, like developers. It's the most terrible platform, imho. It's more buggy than Windows, it has the same malware problem as Windows, it's spy- & adware as Windows, it's inflexible, it's completely dumbed down, and it's incompatible to anything (even it former self). The usability of macOS is even worse than Windows, imho. Still it's very popular. Why is the brainwashing by Apple's marketing so effective? I don't get it.
- jlpcsl 4y ago
  I also agree with this. Have to use all three OSes and Apple is a disaster. KDE Plasma on Linux is years ahead and only getting better, while the closed source OSes are just getting worse. Really too bad that KDE and Linux communities don't have the same marketing powers.
- mikhailt 4y ago
  Because macOS has been the most consistent in the past 20 years and it works out of the box and has exceptional integration with exceptional hardware. Plus enterprise support. (Being consistent doesn't make it good or bad on its own, just being consistent can be a bonus for some). A lot of developers are not technical-savy either to deal with linux's hardware issues, dependency issues, etc. Many IT doesn't want to deal with linux for the same reasons. It's also easier to fix if everyone has the same hardware and software. Many devs use brew/iterm2 for package mgmt and advanced terminal support. KDE may be the best DE out there but it doesn't matter as long it is not available on typical commercial devices and works out of the box with 100% hardware integration support. Business has an impact on what hardware their employees can use and it is often macOS/Windows because it has the lower overall investment cost and much better integration support with their device management tools. > It's more buggy than Windows, it has the same malware problem as Windows, it's spy- & adware as Windows, it's inflexible, it's completely dumbed down, and it's incompatible to anything (even it former self). And Linux has been the most unstable OS for me with broken nvidia drivers, bricked installs and so on all from updating Linux a few times in the past 3 years. We can blame Nvidia for this but it doesn't matter to everyone else, it is still Linux's responsibility to ensure it doesn't happen. I never had to reinstall MacOS on any of my devices in the past few decades. Windows, I did have to reinstall because of bad Windows updates. macOS is nowhere as bad as Windows with its spyware/adware, it's there a bit but it's not that big of an issue. > it's inflexible, it's completely dumbed down, and it's incompatible to anything (even it former self). That's the best part of macOS and why businesses want it. KDE itself was hard to use for casual users because it is too flexible and comes with defaults that are not tailored to them. (I said was, because last time I tried it was a year ago and it had some weird defaults). If KDE could optimize their initial defaults for the incoming new users (which are growing up with iOS/Android devices first), then they might have a better chance.
  - MayeulC 4y ago
    > all from updating Linux Stopping breakage on updates is one of the big promises of ostree-based systems (fedora Silverblue and Kionite), and declarative systems (Guix and Nix). Easy rollbacks, updates are installed in the background with no impact on the running system, and atomically switched on reboot.
    - mikhailt 4y ago
      > Stopping breakage on updates is one of the big promises of ostree-based systems (fedora Silverblue and Kionite), and declarative systems (Guix and Nix). Easy rollbacks, updates are installed in the background with no impact on the running system, and atomically switched on reboot. That will be wonderful and by then, maybe, Linux may be considered as long as it is all simple to use. Until then, macOS/Windows/ChomeOS will continue to be the most commonly used PC OSes. I was happy when my sister switched to using Linux (Mint) but they lasted 6 months before switching to Windows and they said they have no plans to try again because it ain't worth the hassles.
    - still_grokking 4y ago
      I see breakage on updates only on macOS and Windows. There it is a constant. People usually fear updates on those systems by now. It's always: "Let's wait and hear what others say what breaks, and whether there are workarounds", or "Let's wait for the first few minor updates to the major update; you know…". OTOH my Debian Testing boxes almost never break even I update them every single day. (You get maybe one issue caused by updated every 2 - 4 years; most of the time you just need to wait a few days to get a fix. If it's urgent a downgrade of the affected package(s) can remedy the issue instantly.) So in my experience even a perpetual "beta version" of Debian Linux is more stable than "regular releases" of other systems… I didn't had any not trivially solvable issues with my Linux boxes in the last 15 years. But I read about the major fails of either macOS or Windows more or less on a daily basis in the news… I really don't understand why anybody would use those systems therefore. Of course YMMV… I don't use any exotic hardware, don't buy the most shiny stuff right away, and I only use Debian Testing—as almost all other distris are imho broken. The ones that aren't are imho on the other hand too complicated to handle (like e.g. NixOS).
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- kps 4y ago
  MacOS used to be better, before the phonification trend. As a heavy terminal user, one thing I very much like about MacOS is that it doesn't steal ASCII control characters for GUI operations. Fortunately KDE/Qt key bindings are largely configurable, and this is a major reason I use it. (I think I blame CDE for bringing Windows-style key bindings to *nix.) Finder also has some good things — I miss quicklook and column view. And while I'm picking on Dolphin, its information panel seems hardcoded to focus-follows-mouse even though I don't use that mode.
- jacobyoder 4y ago
  Around ~15 years ago ios as a platform became a big thing. It's what powers iphone, and you can write apps for it. You can only write those apps on mac hardware. There are hundreds of millions of ios devices in use, all using apps sold to ios users, developed by people running on macs. > It's more buggy than Windows, it has the same malware problem as Windows, it's spy- & adware as Windows, it's inflexible, Citations needed please. Yes, you can get malware on a mac. That's always been a potential, but malware problems on mac have never come anywhere near the scale of malware-on-windows. Not even close. > The usability of macOS is even worse than Windows, imho. Still it's very popular. So what we can conclude is that your 'ho' aren't very popular(?). So what? That can't be it. It must be that hundreds of millions of people are 'brainwashed'. I got tired of various windows laptops and every linux distro failing to 'sleep' properly when I closed a laptop lid. I got tired of not being able to have 2 apps both play sound at the same time under linux. Oh shit - pulse? jack? alsa? Oh - you chose the wrong version of the wrong distro - recompile your kernel to make that work right - just copy these 87 lines from a linux forum and paste (as root!) in your console and reboot - just be thankful you're not being 'insecure' like Windows. "But none of those are problems now! You did it wrong! My mate Paul said it's always worked!" I moved away from daily Linux-as-desktop in... 2008, because I'd spent a good 6 years on various laptops/hardware/etc trying to 'make it work right', and whenever something didn't work, it was always somehow my own fault for lacking some 'easy' piece of info - if I just keep searching/researching/testing - this time it will be better/fixed/good. I lost a weekend in 2008 trying to get a new laptop set up. Video worked, but could not connect to an external projector. Hours later, eventually connected, but only mirrored, not two separate screens. This was a days after I'd been assured "oh no... yeah, I know you've mentioned problems before, but these days, it's all just fine - I never have any problems with my linux/laptop!" I decided ... 6-7 years of chasing/learning/compiling various options was more than enough. Forgive me if I'm skeptical after many years of hearing "it works great!" and continually hitting walls where no one could ever help. Then... moving to a platform where... you close the lid, it sleeps. You plug in a monitor, it works. Plug in a printer, it works. Plug in a camera, it works. And then... being told somehow that all that end-user experience is somehow subpar to Linux... just doesn't ring true. I do daily use Linux servers. And I've been tempted to give desktop linux another spin 15 years later. I have family running daily Linux/desktop/laptop - it's mostly working for them, but I still hear about weird issues I've not had to face in years. If/when I find myself with a lot of free time, I might give it another spin, but... I'm in no rush.

still_grokking 4y ago

I feel the same. What I'm constantly wondering is why macOS is so popular, especially with tech people, like developers. It's the most terrible platform, imho. It's more buggy than Windows, it has the same malware problem as Windows, it's spy- & adware as Windows, it's inflexible, it's completely dumbed down, and it's incompatible to anything (even it former self). The usability of macOS is even worse than Windows, imho. Still it's very popular. Why is the brainwashing by Apple's marketing so effective? I don't get it.

jlpcsl 4y ago
I also agree with this. Have to use all three OSes and Apple is a disaster. KDE Plasma on Linux is years ahead and only getting better, while the closed source OSes are just getting worse. Really too bad that KDE and Linux communities don't have the same marketing powers.
mikhailt 4y ago
Because macOS has been the most consistent in the past 20 years and it works out of the box and has exceptional integration with exceptional hardware. Plus enterprise support. (Being consistent doesn't make it good or bad on its own, just being consistent can be a bonus for some). A lot of developers are not technical-savy either to deal with linux's hardware issues, dependency issues, etc. Many IT doesn't want to deal with linux for the same reasons. It's also easier to fix if everyone has the same hardware and software. Many devs use brew/iterm2 for package mgmt and advanced terminal support. KDE may be the best DE out there but it doesn't matter as long it is not available on typical commercial devices and works out of the box with 100% hardware integration support. Business has an impact on what hardware their employees can use and it is often macOS/Windows because it has the lower overall investment cost and much better integration support with their device management tools. > It's more buggy than Windows, it has the same malware problem as Windows, it's spy- & adware as Windows, it's inflexible, it's completely dumbed down, and it's incompatible to anything (even it former self). And Linux has been the most unstable OS for me with broken nvidia drivers, bricked installs and so on all from updating Linux a few times in the past 3 years. We can blame Nvidia for this but it doesn't matter to everyone else, it is still Linux's responsibility to ensure it doesn't happen. I never had to reinstall MacOS on any of my devices in the past few decades. Windows, I did have to reinstall because of bad Windows updates. macOS is nowhere as bad as Windows with its spyware/adware, it's there a bit but it's not that big of an issue. > it's inflexible, it's completely dumbed down, and it's incompatible to anything (even it former self). That's the best part of macOS and why businesses want it. KDE itself was hard to use for casual users because it is too flexible and comes with defaults that are not tailored to them. (I said was, because last time I tried it was a year ago and it had some weird defaults). If KDE could optimize their initial defaults for the incoming new users (which are growing up with iOS/Android devices first), then they might have a better chance.
- MayeulC 4y ago
  > all from updating Linux Stopping breakage on updates is one of the big promises of ostree-based systems (fedora Silverblue and Kionite), and declarative systems (Guix and Nix). Easy rollbacks, updates are installed in the background with no impact on the running system, and atomically switched on reboot.
  - mikhailt 4y ago
    > Stopping breakage on updates is one of the big promises of ostree-based systems (fedora Silverblue and Kionite), and declarative systems (Guix and Nix). Easy rollbacks, updates are installed in the background with no impact on the running system, and atomically switched on reboot. That will be wonderful and by then, maybe, Linux may be considered as long as it is all simple to use. Until then, macOS/Windows/ChomeOS will continue to be the most commonly used PC OSes. I was happy when my sister switched to using Linux (Mint) but they lasted 6 months before switching to Windows and they said they have no plans to try again because it ain't worth the hassles.
  - still_grokking 4y ago
    I see breakage on updates only on macOS and Windows. There it is a constant. People usually fear updates on those systems by now. It's always: "Let's wait and hear what others say what breaks, and whether there are workarounds", or "Let's wait for the first few minor updates to the major update; you know…". OTOH my Debian Testing boxes almost never break even I update them every single day. (You get maybe one issue caused by updated every 2 - 4 years; most of the time you just need to wait a few days to get a fix. If it's urgent a downgrade of the affected package(s) can remedy the issue instantly.) So in my experience even a perpetual "beta version" of Debian Linux is more stable than "regular releases" of other systems… I didn't had any not trivially solvable issues with my Linux boxes in the last 15 years. But I read about the major fails of either macOS or Windows more or less on a daily basis in the news… I really don't understand why anybody would use those systems therefore. Of course YMMV… I don't use any exotic hardware, don't buy the most shiny stuff right away, and I only use Debian Testing—as almost all other distris are imho broken. The ones that aren't are imho on the other hand too complicated to handle (like e.g. NixOS).
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
kps 4y ago
MacOS used to be better, before the phonification trend. As a heavy terminal user, one thing I very much like about MacOS is that it doesn't steal ASCII control characters for GUI operations. Fortunately KDE/Qt key bindings are largely configurable, and this is a major reason I use it. (I think I blame CDE for bringing Windows-style key bindings to *nix.) Finder also has some good things — I miss quicklook and column view. And while I'm picking on Dolphin, its information panel seems hardcoded to focus-follows-mouse even though I don't use that mode.
jacobyoder 4y ago
Around ~15 years ago ios as a platform became a big thing. It's what powers iphone, and you can write apps for it. You can only write those apps on mac hardware. There are hundreds of millions of ios devices in use, all using apps sold to ios users, developed by people running on macs. > It's more buggy than Windows, it has the same malware problem as Windows, it's spy- & adware as Windows, it's inflexible, Citations needed please. Yes, you can get malware on a mac. That's always been a potential, but malware problems on mac have never come anywhere near the scale of malware-on-windows. Not even close. > The usability of macOS is even worse than Windows, imho. Still it's very popular. So what we can conclude is that your 'ho' aren't very popular(?). So what? That can't be it. It must be that hundreds of millions of people are 'brainwashed'. I got tired of various windows laptops and every linux distro failing to 'sleep' properly when I closed a laptop lid. I got tired of not being able to have 2 apps both play sound at the same time under linux. Oh shit - pulse? jack? alsa? Oh - you chose the wrong version of the wrong distro - recompile your kernel to make that work right - just copy these 87 lines from a linux forum and paste (as root!) in your console and reboot - just be thankful you're not being 'insecure' like Windows. "But none of those are problems now! You did it wrong! My mate Paul said it's always worked!" I moved away from daily Linux-as-desktop in... 2008, because I'd spent a good 6 years on various laptops/hardware/etc trying to 'make it work right', and whenever something didn't work, it was always somehow my own fault for lacking some 'easy' piece of info - if I just keep searching/researching/testing - this time it will be better/fixed/good. I lost a weekend in 2008 trying to get a new laptop set up. Video worked, but could not connect to an external projector. Hours later, eventually connected, but only mirrored, not two separate screens. This was a days after I'd been assured "oh no... yeah, I know you've mentioned problems before, but these days, it's all just fine - I never have any problems with my linux/laptop!" I decided ... 6-7 years of chasing/learning/compiling various options was more than enough. Forgive me if I'm skeptical after many years of hearing "it works great!" and continually hitting walls where no one could ever help. Then... moving to a platform where... you close the lid, it sleeps. You plug in a monitor, it works. Plug in a printer, it works. Plug in a camera, it works. And then... being told somehow that all that end-user experience is somehow subpar to Linux... just doesn't ring true. I do daily use Linux servers. And I've been tempted to give desktop linux another spin 15 years later. I have family running daily Linux/desktop/laptop - it's mostly working for them, but I still hear about weird issues I've not had to face in years. If/when I find myself with a lot of free time, I might give it another spin, but... I'm in no rush.